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  #1  
Old 04-04-2021, 09:14 AM
Mike Houston Mike Houston is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Bushmills
Posts: 34
Default UL power new engine option for RV14

? For those who fancy installing an engine designed with mogas in mind and which in theory could give better performance than the I0-390EXP. UL power are now selling their 520T, a 220 HP Turbo charged engine which will be producing 220HP at 15,000 ft. The engine weighs 269lbs with starter and alternator, so about 39lbs less than the Lycoming, i am not sure but i don't think that would upset the COG to much and 5 extra HP at sea level and 40lbs less could get your of the ground a bit quicker and you would have about 50 extra HP at 7000 ft. Whats not to like.

Cheaper Fuel
more power
a little bit lighter

The only potential issue i can see is the dimensions it length is 33.34 versus 30.7 for the EXP, width is 29.28 versus 34.25 for the EXP and height is 21.69 versus 19.35. This engine would have to be of interest to RV14 builders, i wonder if Vans would do a FWF kit for it?

https://ulpower.com/en/engines/ul520/ul520t

Last edited by Mike Houston : 04-04-2021 at 09:21 AM.
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  #2  
Old 04-04-2021, 10:43 AM
Aileron1999 Aileron1999 is offline
 
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Location: The Woodlands TX
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Default

Lengthen and narrow the cowling. If you push the engine several inches farther forward you would mitigate the CG issue plus it would look super cool.

Eric
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  #3  
Old 04-04-2021, 11:32 AM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Location: Hubbard Oregon
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Houston View Post
? For those who fancy installing an engine designed with mogas in mind and which in theory could give better performance than the I0-390EXP. UL power are now selling their 520T, a 220 HP Turbo charged engine which will be producing 220HP at 15,000 ft. The engine weighs 269lbs with starter and alternator, so about 39lbs less than the Lycoming, i am not sure but i don't think that would upset the COG to much and 5 extra HP at sea level and 40lbs less could get your of the ground a bit quicker and you would have about 50 extra HP at 7000 ft. Whats not to like.
For those that would contemplate this engine, there are a few things I would suggest you do some research on -

39 pounds is approx the weight delta between the parallel valve IO-360 and the IO-390, and Van's has officially stated that the parallel valve engine is too light for the RV-14.

Keeping an engine cool at 15000 ft when it is capable of producing max power at that altitude will require some extensive experimenting and modifications to the cowl and cooling/baffling system on an RV-14 (not to mention the nods that would be required for the likely relocation of the engine to deal with C.G.).

Potential changes in spin recovery if engine is moved fwd to counter C.G. influence.

Higher power at high altitude could be unusable unless you are willing to fly the airplane in untested territory in relation to Vne and flutter margins.

HORSEPOWER LIMITS: WHY NOT A TURBOCHARGED/HIGHER HORSEPOWER ENGINE?
https://www.vansaircraft.com/faq/hor...epower-engine/
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  #4  
Old 04-04-2021, 12:26 PM
Mike Houston Mike Houston is offline
 
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You would not have to use full power, and the main bonus is the ability to burn Mogas. A fuel that is cheap and will be in supply for a longtime into the future. I sometimes wonder what the deal is between Vans and Lycoming. If they were interested in customers they would be more open to different engine options which would help their customers.
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  #5  
Old 04-04-2021, 12:34 PM
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Mike S Mike S is online now
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Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
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Default Matter of economics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Houston View Post
I sometimes wonder what the deal is between Vans and Lycoming. If they were interested in customers they would be more open to different engine options which would help their customers.
Methinks it may have something to do with known and proven history/technology.

Consider what it would cost in time and $$ for Vans to develop a FWF package for all of the various engine choices available.

Now, consider how many of the non Lycosauras FWF packages would Vans actually sell.

Lastly, the engine is one of the early design elements that the engineers choose, and that influences the balance of the aircraft design.
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Last edited by Mike S : 04-04-2021 at 12:36 PM.
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  #6  
Old 04-04-2021, 12:50 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Houston View Post
You would not have to use full power, and the main bonus is the ability to burn Mogas. A fuel that is cheap and will be in supply for a longtime into the future. I sometimes wonder what the deal is between Vans and Lycoming. If they were interested in customers they would be more open to different engine options which would help their customers.
Van's believes in proven concepts. Aluminum airplanes, Lycoming engines, Rotax engines once they were a mass market item, etc. That's how they bring economies of scale to the market. They don't get that from alternative engines.
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  #7  
Old 04-04-2021, 01:05 PM
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JoopSJ JoopSJ is offline
 
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One of big advantages I see for the T version is that wil get the horsepower @ 2700RPM, instead of the 3300RPM that is applicable for the non-turbo versions.
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  #8  
Old 04-04-2021, 01:09 PM
BH1166 BH1166 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Eatonton Georgia
Posts: 409
Default Recent conversations on UL and RVs

https://vansairforce.net/community/s...d.php?t=190290

Lycoming supports mogas/ cars gas / pump gas with specific guidelines.


https://www.lycoming.com/content/unl...app1%26hl%3Den
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  #9  
Old 04-04-2021, 01:45 PM
Mike Houston Mike Houston is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Bushmills
Posts: 34
Default Vans

I think your naive if you donít think Lycoming and vAns donít have a sweet heart deal going on. Rotax Only got itís foot in thru the door because Lycoming didnít have an engine which was suitable for the RV12.

ULpower have been around since the 2002 and are used regularly in STOL aircraft. They are the engine of choice for the new Dark aero. I agree you can use mogas in some Lycoming but not the 390 without doing some work on the fuel system

Last edited by Mike Houston : 04-04-2021 at 01:48 PM.
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  #10  
Old 04-04-2021, 01:52 PM
PilotjohnS PilotjohnS is offline
 
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Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,413
Default Just because you can...

The use of mogas in a lycoming is already documented. What other advantage would it be to have an alternate engine manufacturer?

I would have liked Vans to have used the lycoming from the cessna 162 in the rv12, but i regress.

I would rather Vans work on the high wing Stol high speed cruiser RV15.
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WARNING! Information presented in this post is my opinion. All users of info have sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for their use.

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Last edited by PilotjohnS : 04-04-2021 at 01:54 PM.
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