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  #1  
Old 02-25-2021, 11:52 AM
LRingeisen's Avatar
LRingeisen LRingeisen is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Chesterfield, MO
Posts: 103
Default Did you know about the exclusions on your insurance policy?

While your insurance policy covers you for a number of things, that doesn’t mean everything is covered. There are various situations that are not covered. If you are unsure or have any questions on whether or not something is covered, it’s better to ask your broker prior to making the flight. The last thing you want is to have an accident and find out later that you didn’t have any coverage at the time.

Of course, you must always follow the FAA guidelines. If you are doing something against the FAA, you can be sure that you won’t have coverage. Something we get questions on a lot involves making a profit. Since these are not commercial policies, anything that makes a profit is usually prohibited. This can include anything from formation flying to aerial photography. Even if you are only making $100, this could result in a denied claim and fines from the FAA depending on if it falls under the experimental use guidelines.

Below is a list of other common exclusions on a Pleasure and Business policy. Keep in mind that this is not all inclusive.

• aerial advertising, towing, photography, or application of any substance;
• hunting, herding or spotting of animals of any kind, including birds and fish;
• patrol or surveillance of any kind, including powerlines, pipelines, traffic or fires;
• flight instruction to anyone other than the pilots listed by name in the policy;
• skydiving or parachuting;
• closed course racing;
• flights off-shore in support of an off-shore business or operation;
• external transportation of persons or property, including wire stringing, or construction

Just remember if you are questioning the use please check with your broker prior to doing it.
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*This is an informative post to help educate and explain different aspects of the insurance field.

Leah Ringeisen, Katie Escalante & Kim Schuler
Gallagher Aviation
877-475-5860
Arthur J. Gallagher Risk Management Services, Inc.
www.ajg.com/lightaircraft / www.ajg.com
Opinions and advice provided by Arthur J. Gallagher & Co. is not intended to be, and should not be construed to be, legal advice. Please direct any request for legal advice to your attorney.
*paid advertiser
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  #2  
Old 02-25-2021, 11:58 AM
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fl-mike fl-mike is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,514
Default

To be clear, casual / uncompensated formation flying is not excluded.

You're going to get a lot of folks spun up if you infer that all formation flying is excluded.
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Mike W
Venice, FL
RV-6A. Mattituck TMX O-360, FP, GRT Sport EFIS, L3 Lynx NGT-9000
N164WM
N184WM reserved (RV-8)....finishing kit in progress. Titan IOX-370
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  #3  
Old 02-25-2021, 12:04 PM
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LRingeisen LRingeisen is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Chesterfield, MO
Posts: 103
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fl-mike View Post
To be clear, casual / uncompensated formation flying is not excluded.

You're going to get a lot of folks spun up if you infer that all formation flying is excluded.
Formation flying for hire is typically prohibited. If it is not for hire, we would recommend getting it approved by the underwriter because there are some companies that are not as welcoming to it as others.
__________________
*This is an informative post to help educate and explain different aspects of the insurance field.

Leah Ringeisen, Katie Escalante & Kim Schuler
Gallagher Aviation
877-475-5860
Arthur J. Gallagher Risk Management Services, Inc.
www.ajg.com/lightaircraft / www.ajg.com
Opinions and advice provided by Arthur J. Gallagher & Co. is not intended to be, and should not be construed to be, legal advice. Please direct any request for legal advice to your attorney.
*paid advertiser
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  #4  
Old 02-25-2021, 12:26 PM
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Dugaru Dugaru is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Richmond VA, USA
Posts: 524
Default A caveat

Quote:
Originally Posted by LRingeisen View Post
If you are doing something against the FAA, you can be sure that you won’t have coverage.
I get what you're saying, and your list of examples is definitely useful -- but that statement probably covers too much ground.

Due to the incredibly broad nature of some regulations (I'm looking at you, 14 CFR § 91.103....) a large number of accidents *arguably* involve *some* potential violation of a federal aviation reg. But in many such cases, even though one could argue the pilot was doing "something against the FAA," coverage isn't affected.

Put another way, when I read of a case where coverage actually gets denied, I'm rarely surprised or scandalized.
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Based W96: New Kent International Aerodrome
(near Richmond, VA USA)
2021 Dues Paid
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  #5  
Old 02-25-2021, 02:37 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 7,356
Default

To all, and Leah:
As noted, using your EAB airplane to give flight instruction, for hire, to others (not owners/named insured) is not covered nor is it allowed by the FAA. However the FAA will waive this rule ("LODA") specifically for transition training, in type. Unfortunately this operation is NOT covered by standard insurance. Insurance is available but is very expensive for owners/cfi's who only need it for a few hours a year. Leah, it seems to me that insurance companies are shooting themselves in the foot here. They want pilots to get the training, but they themselves make it very expensive to do so. Can anything be done? Most casual (one or two times a year) LODA holders that I know have 'dropped out'; it costs more than they make.
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  #6  
Old 02-25-2021, 08:09 PM
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rv6n6r rv6n6r is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Gearhart Oregon
Posts: 315
Default

I'm sure I could read my policy for this answer :-) but in general what about charitable flying e.g. pilots 'n paws which would fall under "transportation of persons & property" or aerial photography for a charitable org.? A lot of this is done with the charitable org. as named insured.
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Randall Henderson
RV-6 / O-360 / CS, 1600+ hrs, 1st flight Sept. 1999
Outstanding Workmanship OSH 2000
Airport committee chair & ASNV for Seaside, OR Municipal (56S), www.seasideairport.org
Donated August 2020
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  #7  
Old 02-25-2021, 11:15 PM
pilotyoung pilotyoung is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 230
Default Did you know about the exclusions on your insurance policy?

My advice is to treat buying aviation insurance like going to your doctor for an annual physical exam (not the FAA exam). You go to the doctor, you get undressed and put on a gown, usually nothing else, you answer a lot of questions for the nurse and/or doctor, and then the doctor proceeds to examine your body including very private parts of your body. The doctor is looking for any sign of illness and there is some embarrassment involved for the exam to be complete. You have to provide blood and urine samples. All of this is to achieve the goal of a comprehensive exam.

Whey you buy aviation insurance you need to do an "aviation insurance" undressing. Tell the broker everything you are going to do with the airplane. Don't leave anything out. Even things like landing on grass runways, attending Sun 'N Fun and Oshkosh, do you fly in the flyby's during the airshow, do you do aerobatics, participate in aerobatic contests, charge people for flights, give flight instruction in the airplane, name all of the people who fly the airplane, /Do you fly to the Bahamas, Mexico, Canada,etc. Have you had any FAA disciplinary actions? Suspensions, had to take a 601 ride, etc. Then your broker can get you quotes that cover all the exposures your have that are insurable. The last thing you want is to have a claim and there is a question about coverage. Even if the insurance company pays the claim after its investigation, you will go through weeks or months of uncertainty. Total candor with your broker is the only way to go! And even after doing a very complete job, there are some hazzards in aviation that are just not insurable. So that is my advice for getting the best coverage.

And one last thing, the first step is choosing an aviation broker who has the experience and who represents all the major companies who insure your type of aircraft.

If you follow this plan, you only need to contact one broker, who should get your multiple quotes and then contact Avemco because they do write insurance through brokers. You have to deal personally with Avemco.

If you follow this process you should wind up with the best policy for you. That may not always be the lowest cost policy.
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John D. Young, RV-12 Owner
Serial Number 120022, N6812Y
Bought it as a flying airplane in Feb. 2018
Just passed 300 hours flight time in RV-12, and 10,000 hours mostly in corporate jets. I am a CFI; CFII; MEI; and a Advanced Ground Instructor, CFIG; and hoping to be able to help new RV-12 owners by doing some transition training for new builders and owners in RV-12's.
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  #8  
Old 02-26-2021, 06:47 AM
David Z David Z is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Thunder Bay Ontario
Posts: 603
Default Compensation vs Profit

Is there a way to distinguish between receiving compensation vs making a profit? For example, somebody wants to go for an airplane ride, so pays for gas. The owner isn't making a profit, but they are receiving financial compensation for the flight with the intent of reducing the cost to the owner.

Assuming receiving compensation is permitted where do they draw the line? The "somebody" pays for fuel, maintenance reserve, pro-rated fixed costs, value of the pilot/owner's time?
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Empennage Passed Pre-close Inspection
Wings mostly done
Fuselage started
83126
Dash 8 day job is financing the RV8
Donation till September 2021
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  #9  
Old 02-26-2021, 07:45 AM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sidney, BC, Canada
Posts: 4,136
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Z View Post
Assuming receiving compensation is permitted where do they draw the line? The "somebody" pays for fuel, maintenance reserve, pro-rated fixed costs, value of the pilot/owner's time?
It's well established that sharing incidental flight costs is perfectly legal for a private pilot and in an amateur-built aircraft as well.

You can't total up your hangar costs, insurance costs, annual costs, and divide by the number of hours you fly and then charge your passenger accordingly... But you can split the fuel/oil cost on a flight.

My usual rule is that the passenger buys lunch. That way the cost is (usually) about covered, and the payment is well removed from the aircraft itself.
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Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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  #10  
Old 02-26-2021, 11:20 AM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 7,356
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
It's well established that sharing incidental flight costs is perfectly legal for a private pilot and in an amateur-built aircraft as well.
.
The FAA is coming out with yet another a/c on this subject. It is not simple. To legally accept compensation of any kind (this includes free lunch) the owner: must not ‘hold out to the public’ in any way. No advertising on the internet, not even post-it notes on a bulletin board. There must be a ‘common purpose’ for the flight, other than flying itself. e.g., lunch, football game, etc.
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