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  #11  
Old 01-13-2021, 06:17 PM
AndyWAUS AndyWAUS is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer View Post
Just copy the builder's manual, and date(/initial if you want) when each item is completed on the copy. Take some photos every now and then, include yourself in a few.

'Tain't that hard.
Now that makes more sense. Thank you!
I actually got a call back from FSDO and asked them the question. The FAA person told me the same info - they would like to see a few pictures of me building it to confirm that I was the builder. But it doesn't have to be every day of building, just a few milestones will suffice. Beyond that recommendation they don't prescribe a format of the build log, so whatever suits best. I explained what I'm doing with dating the build manual pages and he said it's fine. When I apply for airworthiness certificate, there will also be an interview-like process focused on safety of the airplane. This can be done either with a DAR or FAA MIDO. MIDO is free.

An interesting thing I didn't know (in context of repairman certificate) - the manufacturer of the airplane is going to be me, not Van's Aircraft. So I can actually call it whatever I want - Andy's Aircraft BP-5037 if I like. And then I can only service this one aircraft. I can service it even if I sell it. But I can't service another RV-10, because it's not Andy's Aircraft BP-5037. (maybe you all know this already)
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  #12  
Old 01-13-2021, 06:21 PM
AndyWAUS AndyWAUS is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
Your logbook is more for you than the FAA. You’d be surprised at how much you forget. e.g., did I spray zinc chromate under there, or something else, or nothing? And most important: if you decide to skip a step, for whatever reason, write that down and circle it in red, so you don’t forget to come back to it.
For this purpose I use the plans book itself. I mark each step as I go with checkmarks and comments. Probably not the best way to search for and retrieve information, but it works for now. Sometimes I will skip a page and move ahead with a different piece with the intent to come back later - for example, when I'm waiting for a dry day to spray primer - then I mark each incomplete step and then come back, complete and mark them off.
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  #13  
Old 01-13-2021, 07:00 PM
salty salty is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: FL
Posts: 72
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I have a related question that the OP might also be interested in, hope it's ok to ask here.

At what point do you need to involve the FAA (IE: DAR) in the build in terms of inspections? Are there specifics things you should not do before an inspection occurs, etc.?
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  #14  
Old 01-13-2021, 08:18 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 7,180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyWAUS View Post

An interesting thing I didn't know (in context of repairman certificate) - the manufacturer of the airplane is going to be me, not Van's Aircraft. So I can actually call it whatever I want - Andy's Aircraft BP-5037 if I like. And then I can only service this one aircraft. I can service it even if I sell it. But I can't service another RV-10, because it's not Andy's Aircraft BP-5037. (maybe you all know this already)
Some clarification: Anyone may work or ‘service’ any EAB aircraft. The repairman certificate will allow you to sign off the required annual condition inspection, and, as you noted, only on your specific airplane.
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  #15  
Old 01-13-2021, 08:30 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 7,180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salty View Post
I have a related question that the OP might also be interested in, hope it's ok to ask here.

At what point do you need to involve the FAA (IE: DAR) in the build in terms of inspections? Are there specifics things you should not do before an inspection occurs, etc.?
Really, only when you are very close to finished. But some may have longish scheduling times. When you do make contact, ask the DAR for specific guidance, e.g., cowling off (probably yes), inspection panels off?, transponder inspection in hand (should be no, but some fsdos think the answer is yes), etc. You must have the faa registration in-hand. Ask him about logbooks, photos, etc. BTW, most FSDO/MIDO guys will issue the repairman certificate on the inspection visit; most DARs cannot, it will take a trip (currently due to covid a remote call) to the fsdo.
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  #16  
Old 01-13-2021, 08:36 PM
Doug Rohrer Doug Rohrer is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Posts: 315
Default Interview the DAR

When the time came about a year ago to get my airworthiness certification, I had to interview several DAR's to find one that could come in a reasonable time frame. I had to scratch one who insisted I fill out the long form to prove I did 51% of the construction, even though the model was on the FAA list of approved kits. He did not care.
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  #17  
Old 01-13-2021, 09:14 PM
Scott Hersha Scott Hersha is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,757
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When I read these posts, I always feel fortunate that my local FSDO does EAB inspections around here. I think writing a date, with your initials on the newer Vans plans at each step, along with some pictures to prove that you actually participated in the build (if you want a Repairman Certificate), is enough. To be honest, my inspector never actually looked at my home-made build logs, or pictures I took (on the first one), of any of my three airplanes I’ve built. I had EAA Tech Counselor reports at maybe three phases during each build, which they were interested in. If you are using a DAR, they are probably more detailed in their review, but my experience has been that if you have your FAA paperwork in order - registration, logbooks, condition inspection sign off (by you) - and they feel confident you built the airplane, then you shouldn’t have anything to worry about.
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RV6/2001 built/sold 2005
RV8 Fastback/2008 built/sold 2015
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RV8/2018 built/Sold(sadly)
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JAN2021
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  #18  
Old 01-13-2021, 11:50 PM
AndyWAUS AndyWAUS is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Rohrer View Post
When the time came about a year ago to get my airworthiness certification, I had to interview several DAR's to find one that could come in a reasonable time frame. I had to scratch one who insisted I fill out the long form to prove I did 51% of the construction, even though the model was on the FAA list of approved kits. He did not care.
This is odd - I asked FAA this very question today and they confirmed the form (I think you refer to the Amateur-Built Fabrication and Assembly Checklist) is not needed for kit planes from the FAA list. By the way they don’t call it certified or approved and specifically ask to not represent it as such. It’s just “evaluated”. But Vans should have a copy of the checklist they submitted and a letter of eligibility from FAA and I believe they can share them with the public.

Good thing about DARs is you can hire the one who is reasonable.
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  #19  
Old 01-14-2021, 08:39 AM
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MarkW MarkW is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Edgewater, FL. KSFB
Posts: 1,142
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I haven't really seen it mentioned but you eluded to it with your comment.
A log book, pictures or blog is mostly for getting your Repairman's certificate.
I don't think the DAR really cares who built it. After you get the plane flying then it is time to call the FAA and schedule a visit to get your Repairman's.
They want proof that you are the person that built the plane. A Repairman's would not be issue to a person that did not build the plane.
I have heard that the proof can be many different things including a verbal interview to see if you know what you are talking about.
However every FSDO and every inspector interprets the rules different so it is best to have your bases covered with good documentation. (pictures of you smiling while holding a rivet gun) ((and maybe a bandaid or two))
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  #20  
Old 01-14-2021, 08:44 AM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyWAUS View Post
This is odd - I asked FAA this very question today and they confirmed the form (I think you refer to the Amateur-Built Fabrication and Assembly Checklist) is not needed for kit planes from the FAA list. By the way they don’t call it certified or approved and specifically ask to not represent it as such. It’s just “evaluated”. But Vans should have a copy of the checklist they submitted and a letter of eligibility from FAA and I believe they can share them with the public.
Good thing about DARs is you can hire the one who is reasonable.
The checklist MUST be used if you have made modifications to the kit or if you had ANY paid assistance.
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EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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