Van's Air Force
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A&P cert?
- Thread starter bret
- Start date
ArlingtonRV
Well Known Member
For me it took 9 years in the Air Force, but I think there are easier ways to do it.
OJT
I believe 2 years of supervised on the job training or a 4 yr. school. Either of those will allow you to take the test and they aren't easy. I had 2 yrs of OTJ training and a week long (part 65) course during which I took the test. I worked on helicopters for 3 yrs. in the army and have worked on them for 6 yrs. as a civilian contractor.
I believe 2 years of supervised on the job training or a 4 yr. school. Either of those will allow you to take the test and they aren't easy. I had 2 yrs of OTJ training and a week long (part 65) course during which I took the test. I worked on helicopters for 3 yrs. in the army and have worked on them for 6 yrs. as a civilian contractor.
Sort of.....
The test that you have to take covers all types of aircraft. The lic. is for all aircraft not just a certain type. That's what makes the test so hard.
The test that you have to take covers all types of aircraft. The lic. is for all aircraft not just a certain type. That's what makes the test so hard.
DanBaier
Well Known Member
The Flight Standards Information Management System guidance - that would be used by the FSDO to determine your eligibility to take the written exam - is at http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?docId=34EB500C9E377AF1862577290045480A
Dan
Dan
Mark Burns
Well Known Member
19 months 6 hours a day Vo-Tech school in Memphis. 1976-77
Nearly free as I recall.
Worked industrial maintenance 2nd shift to survive.
Pretty hard times, but it was worth it. I learned so much!!
Mark
Nearly free as I recall.
Worked industrial maintenance 2nd shift to survive.
Pretty hard times, but it was worth it. I learned so much!!
Mark
Rick_A
Well Known Member
I've been working on my A&P at a community college in Ft Worth. I've been going 5 days a week, 6 hours a day since Jan '11 with only about 3 weeks off last year. I'm at the point right now where I'm ready to start the FAA tests on General & Airframe to get the "A".
I'm starting my "P" next week and will finish December '12, but I do get this summer off.
There are some programs that can get you through a little bit faster but not by much (maybe a few months). Guys that do the night classes take 3 years.
I'm starting my "P" next week and will finish December '12, but I do get this summer off.
There are some programs that can get you through a little bit faster but not by much (maybe a few months). Guys that do the night classes take 3 years.
Bret,
Great question. Our Airline has a Apprentice program for current employees that have an AP cert and want to go into the Maintenance dept. If selected by interview, they have to work under supervision for 18 months before the FAA will turn them loose. It is completely different for a new hire that has turned wrenches in the military on the big iron for instance.
WingsOnWheels
Well Known Member
Rick,
If you ever need someone to help you study for the exams, I'm happy to do it. I may be well out of practice, but I am a top-notch test taker. According to the DME (many years ago) I finished the practical the fastest and with the highest score he had ever had, only took 7 or 8 hours....
To the OP, I also did my A&P through a city college trade school. 7hrs/day, 5 days/week for the most of it. I would do it again in a second. I had a great time.
David Paule
Well Known Member
You can look up the requirements, they are in the FARs. Basically there's an experience or training requirement and a testing requirement. I don't remember them all, so you should look them up. Military experience or school experience, and maybe even documented apprenticeship is approved.
The Airframe Mechanic Rating is one license and the Powerplant Mechanic Rating is another. While they are usually acquired at the same time, they don't have to be, and some people have just one or the other.
They have their own tests, as well as sharing a common General one that covers things like electrical or hydraulic or safetying fasteners. The practical tests are rather fun.
Dave
The Airframe Mechanic Rating is one license and the Powerplant Mechanic Rating is another. While they are usually acquired at the same time, they don't have to be, and some people have just one or the other.
They have their own tests, as well as sharing a common General one that covers things like electrical or hydraulic or safetying fasteners. The practical tests are rather fun.
Dave
DonFromTX
Well Known Member
I took an easy button on the tests,and back when I did it you could self-certify your experience to qualify. There is a several day school in Memphis, that has a cute way of prepping you for written and practical, guaranteeing that you will pass! Simple trick, they give you ONLY the correct answers to ALL the questions you might be asked, you go over them several times and then take the tests. It is multiple choice, so when testing, that correct answer seems to be printed in red ink! As I recall with that prep, I either got them all right or maybe missed only one or two. The practical was general stuff that was not bad at all.
bret
Well Known Member
WOW! I had no idea it was that involved, myself, been in the heavy, medium, light diesel and auto industry for 30 years with multiple ASE master cert(s) 34 individual ASE certs and worked with all kinds of systems. I was just wondering if anyone has crossed over to the aviation side of the house with a similar back round.
My real question is, Is there a program out there to where they don't have to teach you Ohms law, volumetric efficiency, hydraulics, pneumatics, and tinker toy modified internal combustion assembly's and construction inspections?
My real question is, Is there a program out there to where they don't have to teach you Ohms law, volumetric efficiency, hydraulics, pneumatics, and tinker toy modified internal combustion assembly's and construction inspections?
Here is what the FAA has to say:
http://www.faa.gov/mechanics/become/
http://www.faa.gov/mechanics/become/experience/
It use to be 1,973 hours in an approved school or 18 months airframe, 18 months powerplant, or 30 months combined experience to be able to get permission to take the Oral, Written, and practical tests.
http://www.faa.gov/mechanics/become/
http://www.faa.gov/mechanics/become/experience/
It use to be 1,973 hours in an approved school or 18 months airframe, 18 months powerplant, or 30 months combined experience to be able to get permission to take the Oral, Written, and practical tests.
if you live in the los angeles area there is a school called North Valley Occupation Center (NVOC) Aircraft Mechanic School. Its 2 years and you can earn an A/P for less than 1000 dollars. They offer night classes as well but it takes double the time. The program is about 2000 hours of instruction to include classroom and shop.
mv031161
Well Known Member
To do an annual on a 172 you need an AP license but you need to have an IA sign for it. As an A&p you can sign a 100 hr inspection on a certified aircraft but not certify an annual (same inspection) unless you work for a certified repair station as well....
Took me 2.5 years tech school to get my ticket all paid by dade county, fl public school system back in the early 80's when they still promoted trades in high School!
Took me 2.5 years tech school to get my ticket all paid by dade county, fl public school system back in the early 80's when they still promoted trades in high School!
Pat Stewart
Well Known Member
Not sure why you want to switch to the A&P, automative shops demand a significantly higher rate than your average A&P rate, never understood that one. But to your questions it requires a minimum of 18 months.
Pat
DonFromTX
Well Known Member
I had extensive automotive background, piles of ACE qual also. Nothing transfers directly, but it sure makes lots of the training and testing easier.
fl-mike
Well Known Member
My local FSDO was willing to let me apply the logged hours rebuilding my 6 towards the experience requirement, but I didn't have enough. They suggested I build another plane! I also talked to the local A&P school about tailoring a curriculum for me since I have an engineering degree (I design a piece of avionics they have a course for) and "math for mechanics" would sort of be a waste of time for me. But, in the end, I was more trouble to them than I was worth. They really want young guys to come in the door and go through the standard program ($$$). I had to chuckle when they were giving me the sales pitch and about how much money I could make with the license. If the FSDO is still agreeable in a few years I may take the short exam prep course and give it a shot.
DonFromTX
Well Known Member
I would be very cautious about getting an A&P license with the intent of making money from it, sure never worked that way for me nor others I am aware of.
I got mine primarily so I could work on my own aircraft, and it has been very rewarding for me in that purpose. I am able to do annual condition inspections on any EAB that I or my friends own.
I got mine primarily so I could work on my own aircraft, and it has been very rewarding for me in that purpose. I am able to do annual condition inspections on any EAB that I or my friends own.
Toobuilder
Well Known Member
Right. The "annual" is an inspection of the aircraft to determine if it conforms to the Type Certificate - the fact that this is also a good time to perform "maintenance" is simply a fortunate byproduct, but still completely separate.
A&P?s fix stuff;
IA?s determine conformity.
To the OP ?
The biggest hurdle to the A&P is establishing the minimum practical experience so you can get permission to test. As pointed out, this can be established several ways. A&P school is certainly one method, as is working under an A&P for a few years, or military experience, etc. I was fortunate that my experience as a jet engine tech in the Air Force was not only broad enough, but also well documented. The few holes I had in my Air Force experience were filled due to growing up under my A&P dad. I glued wood, welded structures, did fabric work, and other ?little airplane? stuff since from a young age.
Concerning documentation, some Navy guys were at the FSDO counter when I was looking for permission to test, and despite their obvious experience, their training records were not anywhere near the level of detail mine were. They saw my records and were just amazed that the Air Force spent that much time on training documentation. Apparently, they were simply pointed at an airplane and told not to hurt themselves. As a result, I walked out with permission to test and they were sent packing.
I?ll echo other?s sentiments though ? don?t do it for the money!
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rocketbob
Well Known Member
I worked in maintenance thru high school and college at two different FBO's. When I built my RV-6 I asked the inspector if my time building counted towards the A&P. He said absolutely, and you know more about wrenching on airplanes than a lot of the military types that overhaul things like gearboxes at depots. So I provided him some detailed documentation and work records and he signed me off. I took the three writtens with about two hours of study of each. I'm pretty proud of that, because I proved to myself I had the right knowledge. The oral and practical were two full days. I was 'hazed' the whole time as I had some good friends tell the DME to make life miserable for me. He did!
bsacks05
Well Known Member
"My real question is, Is there a program out there to where they don't have to teach you Ohms law, volumetric efficiency, hydraulics, pneumatics, and tinker toy modified internal combustion assembly's and construction inspections?"
If I understand your question correctly, you should be able to test out of certain sections with which you are familiar. Any A&P school should be able to exempt you and give credit for being able to demonstrate proficiency in, say, basic aircraft electronics. I got my A&P through NAA in Clearwater, Fl. Some students didn't have to attend certain sections because they were able to exempt those parts.
If I understand your question correctly, you should be able to test out of certain sections with which you are familiar. Any A&P school should be able to exempt you and give credit for being able to demonstrate proficiency in, say, basic aircraft electronics. I got my A&P through NAA in Clearwater, Fl. Some students didn't have to attend certain sections because they were able to exempt those parts.
mv031161
Well Known Member
Wrong...the IA needs to sign the annual....tha IA not necessaraly has to do the actual inspection.....you as an AP can do all the repairs and inspection....it happens everyday at every shop in the US without a Repair station Certificate.
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DanBaier
Well Known Member
Not to say it's not happening. But, by regulation for standard category aircraft, the IA cannot delegate or supervise the actual inspection. If someone got caught on this point, it wouldn't end well.
Dan
Toobuilder
Well Known Member
I think some of us are getting wrapped around the axle on the meaning(s) of the word "inspection"...
An IA "inspects" for compliance while an A&P "inspects" for condition. The annual inspection is NOT a maintenance action - it's a paperwork compliance exercise first and foremost.
The fact that the 100 hour and other scheduled maintenance issues are accomplished while the airplane is opened up for the "compliance inspection" is a secondary issue. After all, it would be dumb to open the airplane all up and complete the annual (compliance) inspection only to open it all up the next day to perform the hourly and calendar maintenance.
An IA "inspects" for compliance while an A&P "inspects" for condition. The annual inspection is NOT a maintenance action - it's a paperwork compliance exercise first and foremost.
The fact that the 100 hour and other scheduled maintenance issues are accomplished while the airplane is opened up for the "compliance inspection" is a secondary issue. After all, it would be dumb to open the airplane all up and complete the annual (compliance) inspection only to open it all up the next day to perform the hourly and calendar maintenance.
rocketbob
Well Known Member
Not true. IA's do this and its a good way to get your ticket pulled if an FAA inspector goes thru the logs. FAR 43 appendix D specifically says:
Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that inspection, remove or open all necessary inspection plates, access doors, fairing, and cowling. He shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine.
The only person that can perform an annual is an IA. Therefore he technically is the one that's supposed to do the above. Including cleaning it! This is precisely the regulation the inspectors use to bust IA's signing off annuals following a 100 hour inspection by another mechanic. Because even they are smart enough to know that it makes no sense to open the airplane up twice. Now there is a gray area about having supervised help remove the panels and cleaning.
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Of course, I don't mind them being already clean when I get in there. But, Bob is right. Also, an Annual is NOT a paper conformity inspection. An IA is actually required to put eyes-on the aircraft as part of determing conformity. As example, regardless of what the maintenance record states, the IA must PHYSICALLY confirm TC conformity. That means that when the book is signed, the aircraft is ready to fly because that is part of conformity. If the aircraft is unflyable or unairworthy in some other aspect, then it doesn't conform and should be so stated in the records.
yak53
Member
A&P school is set FAA curriculum about 2000 hours you can do about 3/5ths of the hours and get you’re A= airframe or P=power plant. In order to get certified you have to pass a written test and a practical. It is just like high school attendance is taken every hour. The school, I was at you couldn’t miss more than 6 hours of a three credit course of you were dropped for poor attendance. There are a few schools around the county where that have set up the curriculum where you can get the school done in just under a year. Unfortunately that means you will be their 5 days a week 8 hours per day. The other question is the cost if you go to a private school that will charge you up to $30000 for your A&P. the other choice is a public school where the instate tuition can be as low as $5000. Depending on your job situation you may have a local school where you can go a night. If you are unemployed I know of a one year (50week) public school program that starts its next term on 1/23 and is in a state with liberal rules on residency so you could be an instate resident within 15 or 30 days and pay about 7K for the entire program tuition. Send me a PM for info. The school is set up with 10 week terms you can start at the beginning of any term.
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mv031161
Well Known Member
bob..please tell me where in.43 App D it says anything that the IA has to perform the inspectiion ...an A&P can perform a 100 hr Inspection and sign for it. The same inspection can constitute an annual inspection after the IA confirms all the work perofrmed under the 100 hours inspection is C/W and then the IA alone can sign as an annual and return to service.....do you know that I can inspect a King Air, citations,, falcons, etc... and return to service without an IA iaw their inspection programs since they are not considered annuals....The key word is ANNUAL.
I am not trying to be argumentative abour the subject here but i made a living out of my tool box in both the airline and general aviation both on a repair station and working as a former IA. This is not the first time this argument is raised....Hundreths of shops in the US operate the same way...you may want to read 43.11, 43,13 and, 43.15
43.7 b) The holder of a mechanic certificate or an inspection authorization may approve an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part for return to service as provided in Part 65 of this chapter.
Here is the FAR specifying IA's job.... Under 65.95(2) me as an A&P can perform the 100 hr and the annual inspection (if it is going to be signed as an annual) and be supervised by the IA.
65.95 Inspection authorization: Privileges and limitations.
(a) The holder of an inspection authorization may?
(1) Inspect and approve for return to service any aircraft or related part or appliance (except any aircraft maintained in accordance with a continuous airworthiness program under part 121 of this chapter) after a major repair or major alteration to it in accordance with part 43 [New] of this chapter, if the work was done in accordance with technical data approved by the Administrator; and
(2) Perform an annual, or perform or supervise a progressive inspection according to ??43.13 and 43.15 of this chapter........................
rocketbob
Well Known Member
I quoted it verbatim... part A.
(a) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that inspection, remove or open all necessary inspection plates, access doors, fairing, and cowling. He shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine.
Pretty cut and dry. An A&P cannot perform an annual inspection. "He" can only do a 100-hour. This is worded this way expressly this way to keep IA's from signing logbooks without doing an actual inspection.
