Can't win for losing

When I lived in Denver, I had nearly enough money and time to start building, but no place to do it. Now I'm in Phoenix, I have plenty of room and time, since I have a house with a garage and I work a compressed weekend shift... but I can't afford to build. Can't even afford to stay current; my PIC currency expired on 13 November. I'd expected to be making about $20K more, based on what various headhunters had told me.

Something not right about that.

Little by little

Dont feel bad, I havent flown in over 2 years 5 months because I cannot afford both the RV and flying too. (THis has been very difficult ) I'm looking at doing the building (and NOT flying) as saving money and justifying the cost of tools and parts for the RV.
If you at least start with the emp kit you can save money over the time it takes to build it (took me almost a year because I took my time and read up on this site for all of the major steps in the emp kit) for the wing kit (maybe a loan until you get back to higher pay)

By the way.... (plug for everyone on this site) Thanks for all of the help I have received and it has made it much easier to NOT to make mistakes beforehand...it saves money....I have to give a lot of credit to the pioneers out there that didnt have all of the help from this web site
Jim
7A wing stands (Basic Wing stands from Rudi's design with a few twists from others and my own)
You better believe that I will catch up on the flying once I get done!!!!!

Little by Little

I tell people that I did my RV-8 by the Johnny Cash Method. You remember the song, "One Piece At A Time"?

Built the wings and fuselage in a 14' X 54' Mibile Home. Had to cut the end of the bar off just to be able to get from the front door to the kitchen.

Where there's a will----there's a way. It is soooooo worth it when you finish!

I say this with love...

Coinneach-

GET TO WORK!! Start building your empennage. Or find some extra work and use some of your "build time" to make money to pay for the next kit. (You"re not building anything right now so nothing's lost there.) Or do both; work an extra day and build in whatever time you have left.

College and high school students have started RVs. Folks have built their whole plane in the living room. I spent 8 years trying to get everything just right and finally just decided to go for it. Nothing in my life is all that different now so I feel stupid for not doing this sooner. I work full time as a CVICU RN, volunteer lots of hours at COPPERSTATE and I am married. So my schedule is not totally wide open time-wise and I'm not rich but I expect to fly after 5-6 years of building.
You can acomplish a lot without a lot of time to spend in the shop. 2-3 hours 4 days a week will get a plane built. It will take a lot longer than you expected ayway so don't think about the end product; justget a part finished, then the next part and so on.

You'll find that once you start and comit yourself to getting it done strange things (things that you can not even imagine right now) will come along and smooth the way and make this possible. It's amazing the way it works.

http://quotes.zaadz.com/59935/until_one_is_committed_there/by_unknown

I know there's lots of RV guys in PHX but if you haven't met them I'm a 2-2.5 hour drive from you if you want to visit my shop/project. Shoot me a PM. We'll have a beer.

Press on my friend. It can be done.

well

look at the bright side, you wont have to spend 400$ to get your nose gear up to date....i am madder than a **** in a pair of panty hose.
only because i asked this when i ordered the finish kit and was told no no its fine.

not that you would have with a straight 9

Free money.

I used to buy a new car ever 2-3 years. When I started flying, I gave up buying cars.
I currently drive a 97 ford ranger, carry only liability insurance on it. I was even able to convince my wife to not upgrade her car so often.

I sure has helped me out to justify the money I spend on the plane.

Kent

Coineach, I can't help but to treply to your post. Ever since I was a little kid I wanted to build my own airplane. A real airplane. Always played around with model airplanes, line control Cox models, the usual. Then one day I was reading an issue of Private Pilot in 1981/1982, and there was an article about Van's RV-4 in it. I made a comment to my wife about that being the airplane I will build someday. She responded with a "why don't you stop talking about it and do it?" My response----" Are you nuts? We can't afford that. I wouldn't even know where to start!". That was "on the inside" to quote a famous comedian. On the outside.... "OK. I'll call Van tomorrow. "

No internet then. No cell phone either. Wait until tomorrow, and I got the Man himself. My first question--- can we build this with ordinary household tools? Sure, came the answer. Right. And the rest is history. Now, 8 planes later, the tools around our house are ordinary household tools (clecoes in the wash, rivets all over the floors... you get the idea)! The bottom line is that we couldn't afford it then either. I was working 2 jobs so we could afford a house payment. But we made time, borrowed money from the credit union, had fun and tears along the way, and BEST of all, made some of the finest friends for life through the Van's aviation community.
Hang in there. You'll probably be talking about your next airplane in the not-too-distant future, too, and you won't be alone.

Vic

Gentlemen, I've already heard and considered all the options and anecdotes you're posting; most of them have been posted 20-30 times before. They don't apply to me. My budget is already maxed, by which I DON'T mean "OMG I have to stop contributing to my 401k for a year, WOE!", I mean we've pared down to essentials. I can't score a loan (and couldn't afford to repay it anyway), and I've had no luck finding a second job.

I think the problem here is that your definition of "can't afford" is radically different from mine. When I say I can't afford something, I mean the money simply IS NOT THERE. Not in credit, not in cash. It flatly does not exist.

Coinneach said:

Gentlemen, I've already heard and considered all the options and anecdotes you're posting; most of them have been posted 20-30 times before. They don't apply to me. My budget is already maxed, by which I DON'T mean "OMG I have to stop contributing to my 401k for a year, WOE!", I mean we've pared down to essentials. I can't score a loan (and couldn't afford to repay it anyway), and I've had no luck finding a second job.

I think the problem here is that your definition of "can't afford" is radically different from mine. When I say I can't afford something, I mean the money simply IS NOT THERE. Not in credit, not in cash. It flatly does not exist.

Click to expand...

Sounds like you need to grab another gear and pop the clutch. Maybe Phoenix is not the right place?

Coinneach said:

I think the problem here is that your definition of "can't afford" is radically different from mine. When I say I can't afford something, I mean the money simply IS NOT THERE. Not in credit, not in cash. It flatly does not exist.

Click to expand...

When I was a regional airline pilot I ended up deadheading in the back and was seated next to a very nice woman who was a financial advisor. She spent 45 minutes trying to get me to set up an appointment to talk investments with her. I kept trying to explain I had no money to invest. She persistently kept bugging me to make an appointment, confident she could help me find money to invest. Finally I showed her my pay stub. YTD net pay was LESS than 6,000..... it was July. I was on track to make slightly over 10K net for the year (1992). I explained I had a wife and 2 small kids at home with no other income. She stared a few moments in disbelief. She said nothing for the remainder of the flight.

I feel your pain. Some people don't understand what "No money" means because they have always had it.

You CAN!

You can,,, have what you want.
You want.... more time off? Work less.
You want more money? Work more....
Want both?.... Work smarter...
It is tough to get everything, unless you are super rich and did/ do everything right ,ie bought walmart stock in the 70s
I started building my RV6 making $8.75 an hour in 1995, living with mom. I was ship wreaked and, 49 years old, lost most everything a year before. not rich now but I have my RV 8 and a Super Cub and some time to enjoy it.
You got a kid? Well you made your choices
You have a house payment? you made your choices
You can find living space, rent free if you are willing, (cops patrol their apartments for free). be a cop , be creative, look for oppertunities. Cook at a restaurant and get free food, be a cook, you have tallent in putters ,looking at your log ect. Find some extra $ there. Doougge Reeves did it.....?
We are an affulent country get to work and make it happen for yourself. No one will do it for you.

IF????? you could do the fiberglass on RV airplanes you could be making $50 an hour every day and every hour you could,,, PROUDCE,,,,, just on / off this sight.
GET to work!!!!!!!!!!!! Build a RV, show what you can do, you will be succesful.

Good luck

Jaypratt said:

You can,,, have what you want.
You want.... more time off? Work less.
You want more money? Work more....
Want both?.... Work smarter...
It is tough to get everything, unless you are super rich and did/ do everything right ,ie bought walmart stock in the 70s
I started building my RV6 making $8.75 an hour in 1995, living with mom. I was ship wreked, 49 years old, lost most everything a year before. not rich now but I have my RV 8 and a Super Cub and some time to enjoy it.
You got a kid? Well you made your choices
You have a house payment? you made your choices
You can find living space, no rent, (cops patrol their apartments for free rent). be a cop , be creative, look for oppertunities. Cook at a restaurant and get free food.
We are an affulent country get to work and make it happen for yourself. No one will do it for you.

IF????? you could do the fiberglass on RV airplanes you could be making $50 an hour every day and every hour you could PROUDCE,,,,, just on / off this sight.
GET to work!!!!!!!!!!!! Build a RV, show what you can do, you will be succesful.

Good luck

Click to expand...

Jay,

I'm glad that things have worked out for you. However, the options you suggest are not viable.

Cops don't get free rent, at least not my cop friends. Cooks don't get free food, at least I never did when I was a pasta chef (thank $DEITY or I'd've gained even more weight than I did). I've not done a lick of fiberglass in my entire life. I CANNOT build an RV or anything else without initial capital, so bang goes that idea.

Guess what I'm trying to say is that your get-off-your-arse-and-do-any-work-you-can attitude may be fine for you, but it ignores others' reality. Yeah, I have a kid, and being a single parent is tough, both financially and emotionally. That wasn't my plan 16 years ago and it's not like I can do anything about it now, nor would I trade my kid for an airplane. Yeah, I have a house payment (building an airplane in an apartment? better have a seriously awesome landlord, the like of which you'll not find), because I'm tired of throwing away money on rent and getting nothing in return.

Short version: give the life lecture a rest. I didn't post my original whinge so I could be spanked by the old-timers, and I wasn't looking for sympathy. It was simply an observation. And, no, I wasn't surprised to see Van's arguments in favour of building recited word-for-word in response.

a

Well,,,, .... you list a 9 in your tag maby there is hope??

hope you find your way

Best wishes.

May you be blessed beyond measure.

I found out why patience is considered the final fruit,.....

You have to wait for it.

I started with just a tail kit in 98 and waited 8 years so I could pay for that.
My wings are almost done, and the slo build fus kit is just waiting for me.

Now that I have the money, time is the tough part.

Believe me that can also be frustrating.

Remember it is a hobby albeit a burning one for many, your time will come, and it will still be good then also.

We look forward to reading about your future success.

Victory only comes after a struggle!

I'm not trying to make light of you situation. As I mentioned earlier, I've been there.

Here is the theme song for building. Someone should take some photos/vid clips of the build process and set it to this song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmpG-ba4syQ

I started a -4 in 1989, never finished. Ended up buying one someone else had built.