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Old 01-11-2017, 07:57 PM
Radomir's Avatar
Radomir Radomir is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,524

Originally Posted by DennisRhodes View Post
About the only bit of knowledge there, and I already knew this, was that the FAA looks at all threads on the Vansairforce site. Remember the S in ADS B stands for surveillance.
LOL... that was good But I should probably put the tinfoil hat back on... just in case
RV-7A sold
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:49 AM
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flightlogic flightlogic is offline
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 1,630
Default redactions

The Freedom of Information Act seems to have many exemptions. Much of what we want to see is simply black. I am mildly offended at being referred to as a costumer, not a customer. I only wear silly hats on the Queen's birthday.
Seriously though, the number of paid FAA employees that have spent hours sending each other memos, and setting up meetings is staggering.
They could have told Navworx to send a SIL of 2 for the next year or two, while they sort out their technical review. Safety would be enhanced, an American small business would have people working and no airlines would be in danger. So far, NEXT GEN has been seriously degraded by the actions of a limited number of men in costumes down in Fort Worth, Texas. I hope someone like Senator Inhofe takes a look at this and spotlights the issue. We only saw action on medical reform when congress over rode the FAA.
"Kindness is never a bad plan."

exemption option waived. Donation appropriate.
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:18 AM
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MartySantic MartySantic is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Davenport, IA
Posts: 1,390
Default Having a Hard Time Understanding

Per the FAA webpage, ADS-B Out will be required in the following airspace:
  • Class A, B, and C airspace
  • Class E airspace areas at or above 10,000 ft MSL over the 48 states and DC, excluding airspace at and below 2,500 ft AGL
  • Airspace within 30 nautical miles (nm) at certain busy airports from the surface up to 10,000 feet MSL; airports listed in appendix D to part 91.
  • Above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area up to 10,000 feet MSL
  • Class E airspace over the Gulf of Mexico at and above 3,000 feet MSL within 12 nm of the coastline of the United States
I have a hard time understanding the FAA logic. Worried about "potential" inaccuracies and separation issues, yet, 90+% of the airspace, where GA operates does not require ADS-B out. Makes it obvious the FAA could care less about GA. Radar will never go away!
Marty Santic ----- W9EAA
RV-12 N128MS ----- Now Flying
My RV-12 Build Log -
Davenport, IA
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:04 PM
jliltd jliltd is offline
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Rancho San Lorenzo
Posts: 983

And how could they possibly eliminate radar when there are hundreds of aircraft flying around that were originally certified without an engine-driven electrical system and have never had one added subsequent to manufacture? Those aircraft have a waiver to ADS-B "out" requirements equal to their current waiver to Mode C (at least alleged under the ADS-B rule). And they usually operate at lower altitudes in the range of Amazon drones etc.... Many of these non-electrical aircraft have installed transponders for interment use when operating in Class B or C or sometimes just to be "nice" in other areas. However, there isn't a practical way for these same aircraft to equip with ADS-B "out" equipment because unlike Mode C the continuous operation rule of ADS-B renders it operationally infeasible.
(a few more airplanes too)
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Old 01-12-2017, 04:21 PM
kevin O kevin O is offline
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: swanton vt
Posts: 94

I wrote the Faa the following.
To Michael Heusser. I hope I am addressing this to the right party. I have had the navworx 600b for years. Have followed the proposed AD closely. I have a garmin 430w that could be used as position source however My concern is whether navworx is a viable company. Certainly doesn't appear to be in business.
Decided that I would go ahead and make the change to the Dynon transponder which is rebate compliant. I am trusting that the navworx Faa action is a one off and not an issue with other manufacturers?
So thinking I could at least qualify for the $500 rebate, decided to go forward. Now I find that I am not eligible for the rebate because I have had "certified" equipment i.e. Navworx which is no longer certified. Talk about a catch 22.
I'd certainly appreciate hearing from you. To be dealing with the navworx mess and then be told my early compliance is now penalizing me is hard to swallow. Thanks.
Kevin Oshea
Got a quick response. They can't do anything until the AD is finalized. Will probably be several months.
Of course the rebate period will be closed by then. This navworx saga just keeps getting worse.
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:50 PM
DennisRhodes DennisRhodes is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Taylorsville, Ga
Posts: 835

I exercised my 9 today after the snow and used the chance to honor the rule that says "if I have an ADSB installed "to be sure it's turned on"! I do and the 600EXP worked flawlessly. Spotted numerous traffic targets, allowed me to maneuver to avoid uncomfortable close positions and effectively enjoyed a great flight all in E airspace! If traffic ever gets within 3 nm and+- 500. I start looking for the target HOWEVER, being VFR you still have to look out the windshield and it is my responsibility as PIC to avoid the conflict. Doesn't hurt that the WX was clear below 12500 and Vis in excess of 10 nm ..Thanks Navworx.
2020 VAF Supporter
RV9 N908DR
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Old 01-13-2017, 07:39 AM
oaklandaviator oaklandaviator is offline
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Somerville, Tn and Little Rock, Ar
Posts: 132
Default Navworx mean FAA letter

Seems like the letter about the FAA destroying Navworx business has been removed from the Navworx website. Hopefully that's a good thing and they're starting to work out a solution!
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Old 01-13-2017, 12:05 PM
recapen recapen is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Laurel, DE
Posts: 353

I just sent them a note through their website portal.
I'll try the e-mail as well.

Will let the list know if I get a response!

Response - the e-mail didn't immediately bounce - and I did get an Out of office on vacation from 14 to 23 Jan notice from Bill's e-mail address....maybe someone from the support team will answer for real!

Hopefully, something's happening!
Ralph E. Capen
RV6AQB N822AR @ N06

Last edited by recapen : 01-13-2017 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 01-13-2017, 03:22 PM
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roadrunner20 roadrunner20 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bay Pines, FL, building in Andrews, NC (new base @ KRHP)
Posts: 1,957

I just went to the Navworx site after hearing the letter was removed.
The 600EXP price went up from $1399 to $1599.
This is probably a good sign that they may be close to resuming business.

Let's hope this all gets resolved.
Danny "RoadRunner" Landry
Morphed RV7(formally 7A), N20DL, PnP Pilot
1200+ hours
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Old 01-13-2017, 08:03 PM
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Bill Boyd Bill Boyd is offline
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Landing field "12VA"
Posts: 1,609

Originally Posted by DennisRhodes View Post
My that was pretty much a waste of server space!!! About the only bit of knowledge there, and I already knew this, was that the FAA looks at all threads on the Vansairforce site. Remember the S in ADS B stands for surveillance.
Kind of makes you want to take all your operational/airworthiness/regulatory questions into a private chat room, doesn't it. Apparently Exemption #5 allows the concealing of anything from FOIA except prepositions, pronouns and indefinite articles. Our best hope to learn what is in these documents is the admittedly remote chance they were cached on a bathroom server being mirrored by a pedophile congressman's MacBook and somehow caught the attention of Julian Assange.

Browsing VAF on the public payroll? Obviously, FAA has put their top men on this.

Top. Men.

Meh, I want my ten minutes back.
Bill Boyd

Hop-Along Aerodrome (12VA)
RV-6A - N30YD - Built '98 / sold '20
RV-10 - N130YD - Phase 1 flying

donating monthly to the VAF - thanks, Doug
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