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  #11  
Old 02-09-2021, 10:22 AM
David Z David Z is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Thunder Bay Ontario
Posts: 497
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I considered making my own wing aux tanks. Large tube would fit through the lightening holes easily enough. Some angle, .032 or. 040 alclad sheets, rivets and proseal. The building part would be easy. The engineering part and ensuring it's a safe design, that's way beyond me.

I didn't persue it on my RV8 project because I decided the range wasn't needed. Also I didn't want the weight for fuel tanks I'd rarely use.

A different builder with a different mission might be worth figuring out the engineering and development. This is experimental aviation.
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  #12  
Old 02-09-2021, 11:35 AM
raabs raabs is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Clermont, FL
Posts: 95
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I spoke with Troy a couple of weeks ago regarding outlet finger strainers (post here)When the company was bought and moved to TX 1-1/2 years ago ish, he indicated he's been having an issue with finding good welders. Seems he hasn't found one yet.

My tank welds from 3 years ago look good.
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  #13  
Old 02-09-2021, 01:02 PM
andrewtac andrewtac is offline
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Friendswood TX
Posts: 315
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I am awaiting delivery.
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  #14  
Old 02-09-2021, 03:57 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Z View Post
I considered making my own wing aux tanks. Large tube would fit through the lightening holes easily enough. Some angle, .032 or. 040 alclad sheets, rivets and proseal. The building part would be easy. The engineering part and ensuring it's a safe design, that's way beyond me.

I didn't persue it on my RV8 project because I decided the range wasn't needed. Also I didn't want the weight for fuel tanks I'd rarely use.

A different builder with a different mission might be worth figuring out the engineering and development. This is experimental aviation.
You are right.... it is experimental aviation.

So in that context I offer this. When you talk about figuring out the engineering, are you aware that adding the mass of tanks and fuel in the outer portions of the wings can have flight dynamics influences?

A (potentially) minor one would be a potential influence on yaw stability.

A more major one would be a possible influence on spin recovery. I say possible, because even though the RV-10 went through an extensive spin test program during development, no testing was done with additional mass located in the outboard portion of the wing, so I can't say for certain that it would have a negative influence but from an engineering standpoint it is expected to until the test program proves otherwise.

If you are interested in the science, do a web search on Aircraft / Moment of Inertia.
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  #15  
Old 02-09-2021, 05:05 PM
andrewtac andrewtac is offline
 
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Location: Friendswood TX
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I suspect if the weights are equal, it shouldn't change spin recovery. However, with trapped fuel this and also more likely to get into a spin as well. I can't remember all the moment of inertia stuff, but this is something that people should consider. I don't plan on a spin chute and testing, and I'll accept the risk. However, won't fly with anyone else until I get through testing.
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  #16  
Old 02-09-2021, 05:45 PM
vic syracuse vic syracuse is offline
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Location: Locust Grove, GA
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We stopped installing them because of the poor workmanship. I really wish they would get their act together because they do work well.

Scott, I hear you on the moment of inertia and it is correct. Donít forget at one time Vanís provided fiberglass wing tip tanks for the 6. I used them, and they are still going strong on that 6 over 20 years and 2000 hours. I donít know if vans did any testing.

Iíve also installed them on both of my 10ís, so now have about 3000 hours with them. Thereís not as much out in the tip as the fiberglass tanks, as the tube holds quite a bit of the fuel. Iíve not notice any different flight characteristics, and did extensive testing during phase I, except for spins of course.

Just my opinion and experience.

Vic
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Built RV-4, RV-6, 2-RV-10's, RV-7A, RV-8, Prescott Pusher, Kitfox Model II, Kitfox Speedster, Kitfox 7 Super Sport, Just Superstol, DAR, A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor, CFII-ASMEL/ASES
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  #17  
Old 02-09-2021, 05:58 PM
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Thermos Thermos is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewtac View Post
I suspect if the weights are equal, it shouldn't change spin recovery.
Not to be critical, but that's not correct. Adding mass to the wings, even symmetrically, will most definitely increase moment of inertia about the yaw and roll axes and will affect all the stability and handling qualities characteristics that Scott mentioned.

Dave
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Last edited by Thermos : 02-09-2021 at 06:02 PM.
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  #18  
Old 02-09-2021, 07:52 PM
andrewtac andrewtac is offline
 
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Location: Friendswood TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermos View Post
Not to be critical, but that's not correct. Adding mass to the wings, even symmetrically, will most definitely increase moment of inertia about the yaw and roll axes and will affect all the stability and handling qualities characteristics that Scott mentioned.

Dave
Didn't say iyy and Izz wouldn't change just figured with symmetric loading spin recovery difference wouldn't change. I need to review, hadn't thought about that stuff in a while. More further out, more inertia to overcome.
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  #19  
Old 02-09-2021, 08:27 PM
David Z David Z is offline
 
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Location: Thunder Bay Ontario
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Roll and yaw inertia in the wing tips was another reason I decided against wing tip tanks. Another consideration was bladder tank capacity. After 3-4 hours in any plane, I'm ready to stretch my legs and use a bathroom. Once my bladder tank is full, I can't just step into the lav in the back of an RV. Some RVs have panels to make an airliner envious, but there's still no flush toilet
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Empennage Passed Pre-close Inspection
Wings mostly done
Fuselage started
83126
Dash 8 day job is financing the RV-8
Donation till September 2021
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  #20  
Old 02-09-2021, 09:20 PM
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emsvitil emsvitil is offline
 
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I see the ER tanks for more fuel options and going to places without fuel than for long non-stop flights.
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