VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

-POSTING RULES
-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
Donate methods

Point your
camera app here
to donate fast.

  #1  
Old 01-30-2021, 08:28 AM
Jcy482 Jcy482 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 14
Default 912is Cost

Let me first be clear that this is my attempt to understand, and is in no way a criticism. Can anyone explain why the 912is from Vans appears to be about $10k more than it is elsewhere? Is it because other places are just selling the engine while Vans is selling everything needed to complete that portion of the project? If so, what are you getting from Vans that isn't included if you were to buy elsewhere? This is all new to me and I am the type that needs to understand before I buy things.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-30-2021, 08:36 AM
Rrhsch Rrhsch is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oconomowoc, WI
Posts: 77
Default

You get the complete firewall forward from Van’s.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-30-2021, 04:48 PM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 1,047
Default

You buy from Van's, you get a plane built to a known standard, and you get the E-LSA rating for the plane, which means others that take a 16 hour course can do Inspection annuals, as well as the original builder.


Everything needs to be purchased through Van's, every single part, to get the E-LSA on the Registration, instead of a E-AB.
__________________
Donated
RV-12, #212 N72DJ, bought flying. A Blessing in disguise. Thank you Double D!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-30-2021, 08:01 PM
greghughespdx's Avatar
greghughespdx greghughespdx is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Aurora, OR
Posts: 925
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcy482 View Post
Let me first be clear that this is my attempt to understand, and is in no way a criticism. Can anyone explain why the 912is from Vans appears to be about $10k more than it is elsewhere? Is it because other places are just selling the engine while Vans is selling everything needed to complete that portion of the project? If so, what are you getting from Vans that isn't included if you were to buy elsewhere? This is all new to me and I am the type that needs to understand before I buy things.
The Van's RV-12iS Powerplant Kit includes the Rotax 912iS Sport engine plus all of the needed accessories including hoses, oil cooler, radiator, exhaust system, wiring harness, engine mount, all hardware, control cables, battery, documentation, and various other items to form a complete firewall forward kit. The price for the powerplant kit is $33,870.00 before you add your choice of propeller (2- or 3-blade options).

The Rotax 912iS Sport engine, without all of the extras included in our powerplant kit, typically sells for about $24,900.00, give or take.

To build ELSA the entire aircraft set of components, including the ones mentioned above, have to be acquired through Van's. If you don't follow that route you'd be limited to building/registering the airplane as EAB.
__________________
Greg Hughes - Van's Aircraft - Community, Media, Marketing
Van's web site | Instagram | Facebook
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

Building RV-8A since Sept 2014
Dual AFS 5600, Avidyne IFD 440, Whirlwind 74RV, Superior XP IO-360
VAF build thread - Flickr photo album - Project Facebook page
Aurora, OR (EAA Chapter 105)

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-31-2021, 09:19 AM
JustPlaneChris JustPlaneChris is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 23
Default

If I may add a follow-up question that is related to the original topic:

Do y'all think the additional ~$5k for the 912is is worth it over the 912ULS?

I realize you do away with all the "sinker club" issues, balancing carbs, and carb rebuilds. But other than that, is there any big benefit?

The slightly better fuel economy would take a long, long, long time to pay off the difference in cost via fuel cost savings.

Just musing, while looking at my "what will it cost" spreadsheet this morning.
__________________
Chris Boultinghouse
Temple, TX
EAA 575512
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-31-2021, 11:32 AM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 1,047
Default

If you are considering running two 10" glass EFIS screens, I'd go with the additional charging capabilities of the 912IS motor.

If just one 10" Dynon or Garmin screen, then it a 912 ULS should be just fine.

I run my 912 ULS at 5200 to 5300 rpms on almost all trips, and see about 4.5 gallons consumption per hour. I try to fly about 2 or more hours per week. It is a reliable motor, but you will have carb rebuilds to do, perhaps years down the line.

Old mogas in the tank seems to gum up carburetors a lot worse than in EFI systems.

Wheel pants and slowing down to 4900 or 5000 rpm will save you fuel, too.

If I was worried about savings, or if I wanted to fly, I'd buy an already built RV-12 with a Dynon 180 package for flight instrumentation, for flying around home. Much, much cheaper.

Do you want to build, or do you want to fly? Building is expensive up front. Flying is expensive month to month, with the hangar, insurance, Service Bulletins from Van's every now and then, maintaining proficiency, and normal wear and tear. The first upgrade I would do is put some really meaty tires on the main landing gear with a lot of thickness rubber and 6 ply in 5.00 x 5.
__________________
Donated
RV-12, #212 N72DJ, bought flying. A Blessing in disguise. Thank you Double D!

Last edited by NinerBikes : 01-31-2021 at 11:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-31-2021, 11:35 AM
bcondrey bcondrey is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bellevue, NE
Posts: 528
Default

Take a look at the differences on the performance. Service ceiling is a LOT higher with the iS engine. Much higher service ceiling also. Downside is that it costs more and the completed airplane will be heavier.
https://www.vansaircraft.com/rv-12is...raft-details-2
__________________
Bob
RV-10 builder x2
RV-14 under construction
EAA Tech Counselor
Aviation Nation (RV-12 teen build) mentor
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-31-2021, 12:00 PM
JustPlaneChris JustPlaneChris is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post
Do you want to build, or do you want to fly? Building is expensive up front. Flying is expensive month to month, with the hangar, insurance, Service Bulletins from Van's every now and then, maintaining proficiency, and normal wear and tear. The first upgrade I would do is put some really meaty tires on the main landing gear with a lot of thickness rubber and 6 ply in 5.00 x 5.
Thanks for that! I hadn't considered the differences in charging systems. Right now my plan would be a single screen + AP. As for the question: BOTH. I love building, but I also want to do some flying. Some expense would be saved month-to-month because there's basically a zero possibility of getting a hangar here within the next 5 years (the average wait time for any airport in the area). I know it'd probably save me $25-$35k to just buy one, but where's the fun in that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcondrey View Post
Take a look at the differences on the performance. Service ceiling is a LOT higher with the iS engine. Much higher service ceiling also. Downside is that it costs more and the completed airplane will be heavier.
https://www.vansaircraft.com/rv-12is...raft-details-2
Interesting. I'd read the climb was better due to the different torque characteristics of the iS. Higher service ceiling is interesting, but of little value to me down here in the lowlands.

It looks like I'll have to do some serious thinking before plunking down the cash. All of my Rotax PIC time to date (~20 hours) has been behind the ULS, so I wouldn't know what I'm missing with the iS version.

Thanks for the feedback! Much appreciated.
__________________
Chris Boultinghouse
Temple, TX
EAA 575512
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-31-2021, 12:24 PM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 1,047
Default

One other thing... if you're going to be cheap, and run Mogas... the IS has all the benefits. 10% ethanol is not going to phase it, at all, and having vapor lock definitely becomes a non issue, pretty much, with a EFI fuel system. Knowing you live in hot Texas... that might be a consideration.

The IS motor package will start out a #775 bird, before paint, the ULS package, probably 750 -752# , both with wheel pants, which weight about 10#. Get rid of the wheel pants and you lose 3-4 kts cruise, and 10#



I'm 62, retired, and just learned how to fly. So no, I did NOT want to be a builder, I wanted to fly. So I bought someone else's completed plane. It was probably $30 to 35k less than the asking prices I see now on Barnstormers, May, 2020, and had about 170 hours on engine and air frame, which were both brand new, on a RV-12. It might be 40 to 50k less than for you to build up your own brand new fully painted up RV-12, nowadays.

Weigh your wants and needs, carefully. Can you afford it? Everyone's needs are different.
__________________
Donated
RV-12, #212 N72DJ, bought flying. A Blessing in disguise. Thank you Double D!

Last edited by NinerBikes : 01-31-2021 at 12:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-31-2021, 01:09 PM
JFCRV12 JFCRV12 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Liberty Township OH
Posts: 154
Default Range nonstop

One thing Id add is that if I could change just one thing about my legacy 12 its the range. So, while the time to make up cost difference between the injection and carb engine is significant, I could get to both of my two most important destinations nonstop with an 912is vs needing to stop in my 912ULS.
__________________
2020 Dues Paid!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:22 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.