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Quickbuild - How much do we know......

K

kiwiflyer

Member
Shocked !:eek: Disappointed :( confused :confused:

I am considering buying a RV10 kit and the option of getting a quickbuild kit was really appealing. The idea of buying the kit and having other aviation enthusiastic assembly experts build the most important structural parts of the aircraft was a comforting thought indeed.

My assumption was that the kit was built under the supervision of VAN and his team in the US and that every care would be taken to ensure it was all done to VANS's high standards.

You can understand my absolute shock when I find out that the quick build kits are made by Filipino's on minimum wage. No photos or video are available of the assembly plant in the Philippines or information about who the actual people are that I am putting my family's life in the hands of ? How are the workers trained (hopefully not on our aircraft), whats the staff turnover like, are the workers pilots, are they aviation enthusiasts, are they engineers, how are they selected for their role, what quality control system do they have and who oversees this, how much quality and standards control does VAN have over the plant........are they audited, can I visit the factory,.....how many of them are fluent in english...

Part of me was genuinely motivated in purchasing the quick build kit with the notion that I would be supporting the US economy ;)and that I would play my part in seeing the skilled worker market in US increase and benefit from companies like VAN's showing pride in his US designed product being proudly assembled in the US. (I am a ex South African now living in New Zealand;))

I would need some very good comforting information and transparent proof from VANS on the assembly plant, people, standards, quality control, etc as listed above before I buy a quick build kit.
 
It's easy: You inspect the workmanship on the kit you receive. I suspect you will find the work is top notch.

Since everything is accessible at that point it is really pretty painless for you as the 51% builder to make sure that the plane is safe.

(and I don't see 'how many of them are fluent in english?' is at all related...)
 
The kits come back to Van's right? So aren't they inspected by Van's before shipping to the end user?
 
The QB kit is great, occasionally there is an issue but rare. I've built three with the last one a 10. Would not recommend doing it any other way.
 
Pat Stewart said:
The QB kit is great, occasionally there is an issue but rare.
Click to expand...

Kind of like the guy who posted here several weeks ago where it appeared the "skilled" workers used a razor blade to cut the blue plastic on his wings..It must have gotten past Van's quality control! Ouch!
 
I wouldnt get too stressed about the QB quality. It's far and away better than I could do myself. My rivets are certainly "Safe" but there's a couple that aren't "pretty". The only drama's I can recall were a blind rivet that made a meal of a hole in the baggage area when I had to drill itout to route the rudder cable, and the lack of access in a couple of areas to install options such as the aileron trim.

IF Vans were to employ Yanks, Poms or even a bunch of Oztraylians to build their QB's, the cost would certainly double, if not quadruple. The QB spiel lists $8/hr, with Australia's minimum wage being nearly $16.

It comes down to you as the builder signing off on the aircraft, but there's nothing I've found on my QB -9 that has caused me any concern so far, and I'm not that far off from finishing...
Famous last words.:p
 
kiwiflyer said:
Shocked !:eek: Disappointed :( confused :confused:
I would need some very good comforting information and transparent proof from VANS on the assembly plant, people, standards, quality control, etc as listed above before I buy a quick build kit.
Click to expand...

Would several thousand QB kits safely flying today be sufficient proof for you? And no instances of accidents caused by deficiencies in the QB kits? And nearly fifteen years of QB field history?

I appreciate your concern, but as you become more familiar with Vans the company, their culture and the field history of their aircraft, you will realize why your post sounds to those of us with years of RV experience to be a bit over-wrought.

Buy the QB and rest assured you will receive a safe, high-value kit and gain membership into the world's best experimental aircraft community. Best wishes for an enjoyable journey as you build your magic carpet. :)
 
I can only speak with regards to the RV-10 kit, as it is what I know, but I think the term "quickbuild" can be a bit misleading. Yes, you will save time, and by most accounts, the quality of the work is very good. But, the assembly of the wings and fuselage is very straightforward, and for many of us, the most pleasurable part of the build. Left for you to do, in any case, is the more difficult stuff - canopy, doors, windows, cowling, fairings, system installations, etc., etc.. So I wouldn't worry about the quality of the quickbuild work, as you are still doing yourself what is by all accounts the most challenging portions of the build and the portion where quality really differs from one builder to the next.
 
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Quick build

Kiwi Flyer
Should you have some "Shock and Concern" regarding the build quality of any Vans Product then I suggest that you consider building from scratch!

This morning I was in your City of Christchurch N.Z. and then drove the 30 Kms to Rangiora and purchased an 8x4 of .020 Alclad, more @ 40 thou, Nut plates, Rivets, 4130 tube, and Alloy angles, to add to parts all ready built.

I loaded this into my car - and since driven the 550 Kms South to my home town where I'm building a RV-3 from plans, formers, and basic materials.

Being on a"Minimum" Wage" (pensioner) I have to make each part, cut and bend, mark and drill holes, weld steel tubes, and actually it doesn't take that much longer, and I am responsible for the quality.
However if I could afford and there was a quick build kit available I would certainly do so with no hesitation re quality.

With you engineering -management background you could do the same using locally supplied materials (imported from the US) and eliminate the confusion and many unjust concerns you express in your thread.

Neil Robertson
Plans # 11465
Invercargill (Home of the "Worlds Fastest Indian" Film)
N.Z
 
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Wonderfully built.

I was blown away by the excellent quality of our QB wings and fuselage when we picked them up from another builder. Cessna and Piper would be soooo proud to have rivetting workmanship like Van's.

While I, as an American, really appreciate your thoughts of supporting us here in the US, the Philipino's building these airplanes have an enormous amount of pride in their product and you'll definitely get your money's worth.

Best,
 
Smiled workers

Many of the QB workers were trained and worked for the US government at the now closed USAF Clark Air Base in the Philippines. The quality control of every QB I have seen has been excellent. Far better than what a new builder might accomplish until his/her skills were developed. Just saying.
 
There are plenty of American builders assistance companies out there. I've seen a fuselage built in Colorado Springs to quick build stage and the work is amazing. My understanding is the cost was the same as quick build from Vans. If keeping the money onshore is your goal, and applaud you for it, your goal can be accomplished.
 
I would be keen to get in touch with those guys. Please post their details if you have them.

It would be interesting to see if it is actually dearer ? VANS would not be on selling it to us at the low hourly Filipino rate. The company in the phillipines would make a handsome margin on their workers and then VANS would put his markup ontop of that... plus there's the exta freight cost to factor in. ( I explore these options in my business all the time and at a glance it always looks cheaper but when you factor in all the variables incl possible effups it often ends up about the same ) Wouldn't there be some sort of employment incentive government scheme as well in the US to support manufacturer / assembly plants like this ?
 
I wasn't smart enough to quickbuild. I estimate that it took me, a first-time builder an extra 2 years to catch up to quickbuilders. I did epoxy prime every interior skin which is a benefit.

The first time i saw a quickbuild wing, i looked right at the most difficult rivets i had to do. These were the inboard rear spar to top skin rivets. They were perfect on the quickbuilds. I was impressed!

Jae
 
I am a first time builder of a slow build RV-8. I have a friend that ordered a quick build RV-8, and when I saw it, and looked through out the fuselage and wings, regarding quality of workmanship, and primer, etc. I did keep this to myself, but was very glad that I did not order a quick build.....Just saying.
 
My two cents

I have a -10 QB from the 'old' factory. I would say:
Riveting quality is generally very good, a lot better than mine.
There were some assembly mistakes, e.g. I had to de-rivet a few parts because they forgot to dimple/countersink some holes, which now were inaccessable. And they did dimple some holes that should have been left to later.
Wash primer was a big disappointment. I found some light corrosion when I opened up some of the side panels.

I think the QB is a reasonable value, especially for the wings where the work is very repetitive. If I were doing it again, I would not prime everything in the interior (which I did first time) and I would go with the QB again; unless I lived near salt water or other corrosive environment, in which case I would prime and I would go slow build to get a decent primer on all the parts. (don't mean to start primer wars, but I do think that's the do it/do not do it issue).
 
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Slow build

I had the most fun building the components that are already done on the quickbuilds. I also think it is the easiest sections of the build. Now if the quickbuilds came with only the cabin top and doors done I would be more interested:D I built mine in 25 months averaging 30 hours a week. I also really liked wiring......I need another project.
 
If you are ever in Wellington, and want to look at a 2010 QB-8 under construction to check out the Filipino workmanship, you're more than welcome. There are a few issues with the QB's, most of which you will read on this forum.. But most of them aren't big problems.. And the time saving is huge with a QB!
Hugh
021901099
 
I'll echo a lot of what's already been said, the build quality on our QB wings and fuselage was top notch. Rivet work was fantastic.

The big thing is going through the plans/build instructions to see where they left off, what they did, and where you need to pick up.
 
http://synergyair.com/usa-built-quickbuilds/

:):)Awesome !!!:)

I wish that more Rvators would support US businesses like this. It's comforting to know that there's a 'real' english speaking like minded person that I can visit, phone or email to view progress etc. A company and people that are accountable for the high standards that we all expect.

Sweet :cool:
 
I thought Vans was an English speaking American company ;)
The quick builds go back through the USA, so if they did not meet the standard of the factory they would not be shipped. I am sure any questions you have about he QB etc can be answered by a friendly English speaking employee at Vans.
 
In the US if manufacturers can save on cost and increase profits, they are going to do it no matter how it affects everyone later. That cost savings is almost never passed to the consumer.

Purchase the SB, spend a few days volunteering to help another builder, about 600-700 hours longer and do it yourself. Don't skimp on tank sealant. Have fun. It is worth every minute and penny.
 
Kiwi, I appreciate your desire to support American business. And I appreciate your confidence in American build quality. I think both are well founded. If you go the Synergyair route, I am sure you will get a very high quality product, but not because I have direct experience, but because of experience of others and Van's implicit endorsement due to their selection of them to build the RV12's. I am, however, also confident that you will get good quality from the Van's selected, contracted, and audited supplier of quick build kits. I don't understand what being Fillipino, maybe low wage, or non-englinsh speaking has to do with the quality. There are lots of great products made by people that don't speak English.

On the sarcastic side; Are ya serious?

On the dumbfounded side; Are you sure you will be comfortable or up to bulding and flying an "Experimental"?

On the practical side; There are many things to be concerned about and spend your time, energy, and resources on. A quickbuild being built in the Phillipines in a facility that used to be an aircraft maintenance facility by experienced (I have no idea what their wages are) people isn't one of them.

If you want a QB; order, plan, and enjoy. MHO, YMMV.

Tim
 
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