Engine prices pricing you out?

[Kmdpilot]

Just curious if the crazy inflation on aircraft engines is pricing people out of the market? Lycoming seems to be on fire when it comes to prices over the past several years. Looking old ads and it is crazy how much more the price of a new lycoming engine is, especially the thunderbolt. I read somewhere that the RV10 engines are now insanely priced. But they are not he only ones, continental and rotax are also increasing. Vans and other manufacturers have tried their best it seems to keep the cost of kits reasonable, but the question is whether the engine manufacturers are going to eventually hurt business by pricing people out of the market? I remember the video of Greg (overly optimistically) talking about being able to build a complete RV14 for under 100K. I would be surprised if it could be done for under 175K if buying a kit, engine, and avionics today. I know there is still a huge demand and wait list just to get a kit and engine, but with increasing interest rates and such, how many people will bow out? Or are we just at a point like housing and that those that have not gotten in yet are pretty much hosed unless they have huge resources?

[Brantel]

Was the biggest driver for me selling my RV-10 project 2 years ago. I saw the handwriting on the wall that said by the time I got to the end of that project, it was never gonna happen if I ever wanted to retire.

Now Rotax is trying to sabotage my newly started RV-12IS project.

I feel like my wife and I make a good living but a good living does not go near as far as it used to!

[PilotjohnS]

It is Sunday March 12. Tomorrow is Monday. Just wait 24 hours and the world may have changed. Just saying.

[David Z]

This is part of the reason I'm watching UL Power so closely. They have a bunch of engines that would be perfect on an RV, including an inverted oil/aerobatic offering. If Van's would support them, that would put a lot of competitive pressure on Lycoming and clones. It would do well for total package affordability and the future of Van's business growth/stability. Knocking 10 grand off price of an engine would open up the market and more people can afford the hobby.

Whether the additional kit sales would justify the cost of developing the necessary components to support such a drastically different engine, I don't know. Van's is already swamped with orders and resulting long lead times. I'm sure creating even more demand (that they're already struggling to cope with) isn't high on their priority list. One can dream.

[UnPossible]

I am so glad I started my RV-10 back in 2018, as I'm not sure I could justify the cost it would take to build it today. I just don't understand how an I0-540 can be north of $70K.

I went to the build school at AeroSport Power (which I highly recommend), but I was a bit astonished how simple these engines are. There just isn't a lot to them and nothing to even remotely justify what they cost. Aviation has always been expensive, but if the current rate of price increases continue, I worry it will kill even experimental aviation.

[MIKE JG]

Unfortunately none of the engines really are massed produced these days, more like hand built one offs, each of them.

Even a core these days is getting expensive!

[rockwoodrv9]

Maybe the Yamaha will prove to be as good as hoped.

[Kmdpilot]

Originally Posted by David Z

This is part of the reason I'm watching UL Power so closely. They have a bunch of engines that would be perfect on an RV, including an inverted oil/aerobatic offering. If Van's would support them, that would put a lot of competitive pressure on Lycoming and clones. It would do well for total package affordability and the future of Van's business growth/stability. Knocking 10 grand off price of an engine would open up the market and more people can afford the hobby.

Whether the additional kit sales would justify the cost of developing the necessary components to support such a drastically different engine, I don't know. Van's is already swamped with orders and resulting long lead times. I'm sure creating even more demand (that they're already struggling to cope with) isn't high on their priority list. One can dream.

This would be smart for Vans. Yes, right now they have too many kits on sale with massive backorders. People were flush with cash and time during the pandemic. That will not always be the case and if they want to keep selling kits, the total cost of a flying plane cannot be cost prohibitive. So I would think they would be incentivized to break from their super preference for lycoming unless lycoming starts being a little more competitive. But right now they design their planes, except the 12 for lycoming engines when we all know there are just as good non lycoming engines out there.

[Kyle Boatright]

Originally Posted by Kmdpilot

... I would think they would be incentivized to break from their super preference for lycoming unless lycoming starts being a little more competitive.

Competitive with what, exactly? Other than Continental (which has the same pricing/inflation/lead time issues), there are no proven alternatives.

[BobTurner]

Unfortunately, this is what you get in a capitalist society when one company has pretty much a monopoly. Yes, there are two main companies, but a close look will show that each has a pretty much separate market, thanks to the type certificate process and the nature of building airplanes. The owners and CEOs end up setting an unrealistically high profit goal, but don't make it. So they raise prices. But that reduces demand, fewer engines to cover overhead costs, so their profits go down instead of up. So they raise prices more! with the not surprising results. This death spiral happened to the airframe manufacturers back in the 1980-90's. I guess these genius CEO's just never learn.