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  #11  
Old 09-15-2021, 06:30 AM
219PB 219PB is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Victoria, Tx
Posts: 515
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When I nested the frame to the canopy, the gap deviations went from almost 0 to 3/16". My canopy was attached to the frame using Sika and one would never know that the canopy did not match the frame exactly. I too used a base layer of fiberglass then layers of carbon fiber for my skirting. It turned our really nice. It is much more forgiving that aluminum to hide the not so perfect fitment.
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Paul Bonorden
RV-6A Flying
My Builders Website
Victoria, TX
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  #12  
Old 09-15-2021, 08:39 AM
Scott Hersha Scott Hersha is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,956
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I am also going through this frustrating build experience on my RV6 build. I built my first home built airplane, an RV6, more than 20 years ago, and spent at least 40 hours trying to make the slider frame fit. Never got there, but hid the poor fitting frame with skirting. I am now almost 40 hours into this “new” frame and it is just as frustrating as it was 20+ years ago. I think I’ll regret not reading this post a couple days ago. I trimmed .1” off the bottoms of the forward bar feet to bring the center down. Now it’s level with the windshield at the center, but below as it curves down to the sides. I should have listened to Larry. My rear bow is now too low relative to the fuse turtle deck skins. Raising it up would involve unbending the curved part of the rear slider channel. I already drilled it in place a month ago when it fit correctly there.
Like the OP, I really don’t even want to go to the airport to work on it, it’s got me so peed off….
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SH
RV6/2001 built/sold 2005
RV8 Fastback/2008 built/sold 2015
RV4/bought 2016/sold/2017
RV8/2018 built/Sold(sadly)
RV4/bought 2019 Flying
RV6/Used kit purchased 2021 building
Cincinnati, OH/KHAO
JAN2021
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  #13  
Old 09-15-2021, 10:08 AM
wirejock's Avatar
wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 4,669
Default Skirt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hersha View Post
I am also going through this frustrating build experience on my RV6 build. I built my first home built airplane, an RV6, more than 20 years ago, and spent at least 40 hours trying to make the slider frame fit. Never got there, but hid the poor fitting frame with skirting. I am now almost 40 hours into this “new” frame and it is just as frustrating as it was 20+ years ago. I think I’ll regret not reading this post a couple days ago. I trimmed .1” off the bottoms of the forward bar feet to bring the center down. Now it’s level with the windshield at the center, but below as it curves down to the sides. I should have listened to Larry. My rear bow is now too low relative to the fuse turtle deck skins. Raising it up would involve unbending the curved part of the rear slider channel. I already drilled it in place a month ago when it fit correctly there.
Like the OP, I really don’t even want to go to the airport to work on it, it’s got me so peed off….
Fiberglass windshield trim and canopy skirt. No one will ever see. You should have seen mine before. Lots of after photos on my blog or read my articles in Kitplanes , Oct 2021 (sorry about the shameless self promoting).
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Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 01/01/2021, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
Empennage, wings, fuse, finishing kit, now FWF
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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  #14  
Old 09-15-2021, 04:57 PM
Scott Hersha Scott Hersha is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,956
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Larry,
I did read your article (part 1) and some parts of it are unclear to me. It sounds like you used the aluminum skirt brace (C-691) and the inside skirt piece (C-759) in the final assembly, and that the fiberglass skirt will be riveted to those two aluminum parts and the canopy frame. Does the canopy still get sandwiched between the C-759 and the fiberglass outer skirt with #6 screws? It seems like there would be some concern about pop rivets and screws pulling through the fiberglass. I like the idea of the fiberglass skirt and wish there was a video showing how it all actually works. Also - the windshield is designed to use fiberglass skirting and forward transition, but why did you make it to pop off before gluing it back down? Couldn’t you just do the layup right on the plexi and forward boot cowl skin? Same with the top roll bar layers?

Thanks. Wish I knew what you know about this.
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SH
RV6/2001 built/sold 2005
RV8 Fastback/2008 built/sold 2015
RV4/bought 2016/sold/2017
RV8/2018 built/Sold(sadly)
RV4/bought 2019 Flying
RV6/Used kit purchased 2021 building
Cincinnati, OH/KHAO
JAN2021
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  #15  
Old 09-15-2021, 07:22 PM
wirejock's Avatar
wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 4,669
Default Canopy skirt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hersha View Post
Larry,
I did read your article (part 1) and some parts of it are unclear to me. It sounds like you used the aluminum skirt brace (C-691) and the inside skirt piece (C-759) in the final assembly, and that the fiberglass skirt will be riveted to those two aluminum parts and the canopy frame. Does the canopy still get sandwiched between the C-759 and the fiberglass outer skirt with #6 screws? It seems like there would be some concern about pop rivets and screws pulling through the fiberglass. I like the idea of the fiberglass skirt and wish there was a video showing how it all actually works. Also - the windshield is designed to use fiberglass skirting and forward transition, but why did you make it to pop off before gluing it back down? Couldn’t you just do the layup right on the plexi and forward boot cowl skin? Same with the top roll bar layers?

Thanks. Wish I knew what you know about this.
Sorry. The article was more about how to lay up the skirt and less about how to assemble. Here goes...
Before bonding the canopy, fabricate one C-660 Aluminum skirt. Just the middle row of holes. Drill the holes in the weldment per plan using the aluminum skirt. Just use it for both sides. Ignore the top row of holes through the plexi and C-759. Drill the holes inside for the C-791 Canopy Skirt Braces as well.
The plexi is bonded (sandwiched) between C-759 Inside Canopy Skirt & C-660 Canopy Skirt just like it's shown in the photo, except there's no holes in the plexi and no fasteners in the skirt.
Rivet C-759 using every other hole. Leave the others open.
Bond the canopy using the C-759 per plan but no fasteners in the plexi. Sika will hold it along C-759.
Layup the skirt marking open holes as you go. Match drill the open holes left from C-759. Cleko C-791 in place. Cleko the skirt to the previously drilled holes. Climb inside and close the canopy. Using a helper outside to hold the skirt against the fuse, push the tabs on C-759 against the skirt, drill and have the helper cleko. Climb out. Now you have two rows of holes.
Bond the skirt in place using clekos instead of fasteners. Cure.
Remove the clekos, fill the holes, prep & paint.
Not quite that simple but that covers the main points.
I know some don't like bonding with Sika, but I tried several test samples with the materials and every one ripped fiberglass layers apart. Plexi broke in pieces. Aluminum bent. Sika never once failed. That said, please do your own tests and research.

As far as the windshield trim, I don't like sanding on my airplane. Too easy to hit something. Very difficult to remove an epoxied trim mistake. I was able to comlletely finish the trim off the airplane. If necessary, the trim can be removed and windshield replaced just like an auto.
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Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 01/01/2021, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
Empennage, wings, fuse, finishing kit, now FWF
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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  #16  
Old 09-16-2021, 06:58 AM
Scott Hersha Scott Hersha is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,956
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Thanks Larry. That makes sense now that I look at it with your explanation in mind, and seems way easier than what I had envisioned. I didn’t know Sika would work in a thin layer along the canopy frame. I’m assuming you also use the Sika to bond the completed windshield fairing back on. I also like the idea of sanding that fairing off the airplane.

I’ve used West Systems structural adhesive called ProSet to bond my canopy on my RV8 showplaces fastback kit several years ago. I called the Gougeon Brothers (West Systems) in Michigan to ask advice before doing this. They said that Spaceship One was entirely bonded together with this stuff. It is a wide temperature tolerant thickened epoxy, very similar to G-Flex - available at Lowe’s/Home Depot, etc. It can wet out cloth and is completely compatible with other West Systems epoxies. It has about a 4 hour pot life at 72* F, which was very helpful when bonding the entire RV8 FB bubble to the fiberglass/epoxy frame.

Now if I can just get that slider frame a little bit closer…….
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SH
RV6/2001 built/sold 2005
RV8 Fastback/2008 built/sold 2015
RV4/bought 2016/sold/2017
RV8/2018 built/Sold(sadly)
RV4/bought 2019 Flying
RV6/Used kit purchased 2021 building
Cincinnati, OH/KHAO
JAN2021
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  #17  
Old 09-16-2021, 06:59 AM
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scottmillhouse scottmillhouse is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Madison, AL
Posts: 347
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My current 7A was purchased as an abandoned project. Canopy frame was drilled but frame was never fitted. It was so far off that a clecoed canopy was locked in place and would not slide. The front edges were about 1/2 too far outside. I could not bend or it would break so I made a jig and used heat and a hydraulic jack to apply an upward force when heating to pull the sides in. Worked great. That plus shims and a combination of riveting and bonding with the fabrication of a carbon/fiberglass rear skirt worked perfectly. A propane torch will not do it but a Mapp worked great. Just took about 6 heat cycles in about a half an hour.
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New RV-7A N579RV, just over 140 hours now
Built RV-12, 328 hours-sold, purchased RV-12 sold, Built RV-9A, 536 hours-sold, Not completed RV-7 sold, Built Kitfox sold
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