VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

-POSTING RULES
-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
Donate methods

Point your
camera app here
to donate fast.

  #11  
Old 06-08-2020, 01:22 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 7,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TShort View Post
I'm in year 3 of -10 ownership, 900+ hours total time, no instrument ticket
250+ hours in the -10

Mine went up again this year, now at $3286 ($2996 last year). No changes in coverage etc.

I have no accident history, etc.
This looks pretty expensive to me, BUT, everyone is different, and it?s tough to compare without all the facts. Things no one talks about:
Age. At some point it makes a difference.
Hull value. We all love our planes, but if you claim an unrealistic hull value (high), the insurance company gets nervous. They don?t like it if an ?accident? could make the owner extra money.
Liability limits: I was offered a sub limit of $100K per passenger, or no sub-limits ($1 million ?smooth?). Cost difference of $400.
IFR rating is worth something, more for low time pilots, less for high time, it seems.
History. Some companies want no accidents, others will forgive one, especially if you?ve been with them for a while.
And other stuff I?m sure.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-08-2020, 03:04 PM
TShort TShort is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Indianapolis, IN (KUMP)
Posts: 1,072
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
This looks pretty expensive to me, BUT, everyone is different, and it?s tough to compare without all the facts. Things no one talks about:
Age. At some point it makes a difference.
Hull value. We all love our planes, but if you claim an unrealistic hull value (high), the insurance company gets nervous. They don?t like it if an ?accident? could make the owner extra money.
Liability limits: I was offered a sub limit of $100K per passenger, or no sub-limits ($1 million ?smooth?). Cost difference of $400.
IFR rating is worth something, more for low time pilots, less for high time, it seems.
History. Some companies want no accidents, others will forgive one, especially if you?ve been with them for a while.
And other stuff I?m sure.
You callin' me old?!

I'm 46, so that shouldn't be an issue.
I'm not really sure otherwise. I think the hull value is reasonable given how the airplane is equipped.
__________________
Thomas Short
KUMP - Indianapolis, IN / KAEJ - Buena Vista, CO
RV-10 N410TS bought / flying
RV-8 wings / fuse in progress ... still
1948 Cessna 170 N3949V
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-11-2020, 10:40 AM
DJP DJP is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 94
Default It?s all about supply and demand

AOPA and EAA have written several articles about the current status of the aviation insurance industry in the recent past and it is not good for those of us paying the premiums. I do not recall the exact numbers, but apparently the number of companies writing policies has dropped from around 20 down to around 12. This has caused the large increases in policy premiums that some are reporting. The only good news is that they believe that the situation will stabilize in five or so years and pricing will become more competitive again. I hold an ATP and CFI and have over 21,000 total time and about 900 hours in the RV-10. I was stunned when I got a notice that my insurance carrier was not going to renew my policy. It turns out that the company was going to stop writing policies on aircraft completely; it had nothing to do with me. I eventually went with AOPA and they found a underwriter that was charging me about $1,800 for a million dollars liability and one hundred thousand each passenger. That was just over a year ago and the value of the aircraft was $175,000. Then I put in a new panel and got a $20,000 paint job so I increased the value to $225,000 and the policy premium increased to $2,440. In the articles mentioned, they stressed the importance of filling as many of the boxes as possible. More hours, more ratings etc. Even though I am no longer required to maintain a First Class Medical certificate, I still get one hoping that will help offset my increasing age (74). Another thing that they recommend is staying with the same company. Apparently, developing a long clean track record with an individual insurance company will pay dividends in the future.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-12-2020, 08:43 AM
blahphish's Avatar
blahphish blahphish is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Marietta, GA (KCZL)
Posts: 311
Default

Here are a couple more data points for the discussion.

I recently got my annual quote from Gallagher, whom I'm very happy with by the way, and completed my IFR rating shortly after that initial quote. The new quote with IFR rating in hand was 11% less than not having the rating.

The premium was up 22% from last year.
__________________
Brian Unrein
RV10 N42BU 900+ hours!
First flight 6-16-12
https://N42BU.com
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-12-2020, 09:00 AM
pilotyoung pilotyoung is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 249
Default rv-10 insurance

The insurance market (all insurance) has ups and downs. They have been going through these cycles for sure since 1971 when I entered the business and I think since far longer than that. They make money and then the lower rates and ease underwriting rules. In aviation insurance, new companies enter the market and sell for low rates, effectively buying the business. Then because of the low rates and easier underwriting rules, they lose money. So then they go back to higher rates and tighter underwriting rules.

Many times things that people tell you will get you a lower rate will not. Several years ago I was a corporate pilot flying Citations. The chief pilot and I went to Atlanta to meet with our insurance company. We met with a vice president and the underwriter who was handling our policy. Then, and now, Safety Management Systems, are a big thing in corporate aviation. I ask the VP is we adopted a SMS would that lower our premiums. He said that at the time premiums were so low, that they could not give discounts for anything.

So while pilot rating, experience, hours in the airplane, etc. all make a difference, I think the biggest factor is the state of the insurance market at the time. And right now, it is a hard market, meaning they have raised rates and tightened underwriting rules.

The best way to handle aviation insurance is the get a good broker who specializes in aviation insurance. Tell them everything about your airplane, ownership, use, rental if any, aerobatics if any, airshows, if any, hangar, tied down, home base, etc. Then ask the broker to get you quotes from all the companies that insure you type of airplane. Not every aviation insurance company insures all types of aircraft. Review the quotes in detail, discuss them with the broker, ask for the brokers recommendation, and then make a decision. I think that will get you the best overall insurance solution. And that is not always the lowest rate.
__________________
John D. Young, RV-12 Owner
Serial Number 120022, N6812Y
Bought it as a flying airplane in Feb. 2018
Just passed 300 hours flight time in RV-12, and 10,000 hours mostly in corporate jets. I am a CFI; CFII; MEI; and a Advanced Ground Instructor, CFIG; and hoping to be able to help new RV-12 owners by doing some transition training for new builders and owners in RV-12's.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-12-2020, 09:07 AM
dcflyer84 dcflyer84 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Jamestown, NC
Posts: 25
Default

FWIW in this discussion:
I use a broker who found: AIG $1M/100K at $180K hull. First renewal was last Dec. $2040.
Even at first time underwriting with 0 RV10 time, is was just a little over $2100 with a 1 hour checkout from owner/builder.
I'm ATP, with CFI,I, ME and 6 type ratings.
At the time I had 12,000+ hours with about 400+ in complex ASELs

With insurance, it's such a toss-up. Without seeing the actuarials they use and the myriad factors that go into risk assessment, your flight experience alone doesn't always add up to a good rate.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-12-2020, 08:01 PM
jeffwhip jeffwhip is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 166
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcflyer84 View Post
FWIW in this discussion:
I use a broker who found: AIG $1M/100K at $180K hull. First renewal was last Dec. $2040.
Even at first time underwriting with 0 RV10 time, is was just a little over $2100 with a 1 hour checkout from owner/builder.
I'm ATP, with CFI,I, ME and 6 type ratings.
At the time I had 12,000+ hours with about 400+ in complex ASELs

With insurance, it's such a toss-up. Without seeing the actuarials they use and the myriad factors that go into risk assessment, your flight experience alone doesn't always add up to a good rate.

Who is your broker? Inquiring minds want to know.
__________________
Rudder - Complete
Horizontal Stabilizer - Complete
Vertical Stabilizer - Complete
Elevators - Complete
Cabin Cover - Complete (wheewww!)
FWF - Complete
EFII 32 - In Progress
Dues Paid Through 2020
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-13-2020, 10:32 AM
dcflyer84 dcflyer84 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Jamestown, NC
Posts: 25
Default Broker

I'll make a long story short, EBCO Aviation Insurance LLC dba Aerovon. My agent is Miller Stallings. They are in GA, NC and TN. You can look them up under either name. 800-972-8820

The longer version is the brokerage that found both my original and renewal policy through AIG was AIBNA (Aviation Insurance Brokers of North America in GA). This firm was acquired by Aerovon about a year ago. I'll be nurturing a new relationship with them now having been with AIBNA for a number of years with a previous airplane. Very little interaction with them yet beyond howdy-dos and we're your new broker/welcome letter, as my policy doesn't renew near year-end. As long as they can keep finding me good deals with solid underwriters, I'll stick with them.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-23-2020, 08:59 PM
Charlie Bravo Papa Charlie Bravo Papa is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 13
Default

I just bought my first GA plane, a RV-10, and my premium is $2300/yr for $175k. I went through Lima Bravo Aviation. Lee underwrites for many carriers and is really good at shopping the market. I found that my biggest issue was the runway length at my home airfield. Because it was only 2500’ I had several carriers deny me coverage. Had it been 2800’ or longer I wouldn’t have had any issues. I thought my CFII, ATP, airline and military flight experience would have made a difference in their decision making but it didn’t.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-23-2020, 09:28 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 7,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Bravo Papa View Post
I just bought my first GA plane, a RV-10, and my premium is $2300/yr for $175k. ....... I thought my CFII, ATP, airline and military flight experience would have made a difference in their decision making but it didn?t.
Maybe it did make a difference. A lot of pilots with zero RV time (regardless of other experience) pay more than that until they have 50 or 100 hours in type.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:38 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.