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  #1  
Old 02-15-2021, 03:53 PM
GarthR GarthR is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: SAINT CHARLES
Posts: 5
Default MT Propeller for the 390 EXP119?

Hi.

I'm just starting to research what prop I want for my RV14a 390EXP119 Thunderbolt engine (dual pmags). Is the MT propeller option new? On the order form it's dated 1/28/21. I'm not sure if that is a revision date or an original date. I haven't ordered the engine yet but need a prop decision so I can order both and take advantage of the discount.

My choices seem to be:

Hartzell 2 blade Aluminum (C2YR-1BFP/F7497)
Hartzell 2 blade Composite (G2YR/N7605W-2X)
Hartzell 3 blade Composite (3CR00404X "Raptor")
MT 3 blade Composite (MTV-12-B/188-59f)

Hartzell has been around forever (1917) and I would have no problem ordering one of their props. MT has "just" 40 years experience but advertises 90% of the European market (headquarters in Germany) and 30% of the US market. They seem very reputable which is probably why Vans has even listed them as an option.

I've read the MT order page notes and warnings. In one of the notes, Vans states they have not tested all the MT propellers yet. I'm going to call them this week to see if they have tested my potential combo.

In the meantime, if anyone has any thoughts pro or con to the MT option, I would appreciate any comments!

Also, I searched the forums here using "MT propeller", "MT" and "Propeller" and didn't find any relevant posts. If someone can point me to a discussion, I'd appreciate that too!

Thanks,

-Garth
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  #2  
Old 02-15-2021, 07:08 PM
Reflex Reflex is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Kansas
Posts: 180
Default

I went with the MT 3 blade on my -14. Not flying yet so I don't have hard data. However, I can tell you why I made the decision:
  • No operating (RPM) limitations
  • Lighter weight (roughly 20 lbs vs. 2 blade Hartzell) I can spend that weight elsewhere (like a back up alternator and/or battery)
  • Less gyroscopic impact on the air frame, engine, and components
  • The material/construction of the prop tends to dampen vibration where an aluminum prop amplifies it.
  • Easily repairable - multiple repair stations in the U.S.
  • Fully stocked U.S. Distributor (McFarlane)

Note: MT does not recommend the MTV-12 the IO-390. The MTV-9 which is a bit more robust is the preferred prop.

I had an opportunity to fly an MT 3 blade installed on an O-360 180 hp on a C-175. I flew the in the plane before installation and had the opportunity to fly the plane after the installation. The previous prop was a 2 blade Hartzell. The difference can't be described.

I'd recommend you give McFarlane Aviation a call to discuss. Doesn't cost a thing to ask questions. I was able to talk to Dave McFarlane himself and found him to be incredibly interested in my project in RV's in general. By the Way McFarlane aviation is an advertiser on this site.

Link to McFarlane's prop page: https://www.mcfarlaneaviation.com/ar...ight-resource/

My 2 cents.
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Emp Complete (including fiberglass)
Wings complete (including fiberglass)
Fuse Complete
Working on Finishing Kit
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  #3  
Old 02-15-2021, 07:14 PM
9GT's Avatar
9GT 9GT is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 2,096
Default

If you decide MT, you may want to shop around for better pricing than Van’s offers. I got mine from Tiffinaire in Ohio and saved over $1000. That was around 2 years ago though.
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  #4  
Old 02-15-2021, 09:32 PM
Taltruda Taltruda is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 633
Default

I’ve found the MT props to be significantly slower on the top end than a Hartzell prop.. that would concern me if I were prop shopping..
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Las Vegas
RV-8 empenage finished 10-2020

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  #5  
Old 02-16-2021, 07:15 AM
swisseagle's Avatar
swisseagle swisseagle is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 20km outside of Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 498
Default

Also think about the 300 series from WhirlWind.

https://www.whirlwindaviation.com/props/300series.asp

But be careful about CG .. prop is very light!
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RV-7A, TMX-IO-320, FM-150, Sensenich FP
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  #6  
Old 02-17-2021, 04:14 AM
SBendl SBendl is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: EDPM
Posts: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflex View Post
I went with the MT 3 blade on my -14. Not flying yet so I don't have hard data. However, I can tell you why I made the decision:
  • No operating (RPM) limitations
  • Lighter weight (roughly 20 lbs vs. 2 blade Hartzell) I can spend that weight elsewhere (like a back up alternator and/or battery)
  • Less gyroscopic impact on the air frame, engine, and components
  • The material/construction of the prop tends to dampen vibration where an aluminum prop amplifies it.
  • Easily repairable - multiple repair stations in the U.S.
  • Fully stocked U.S. Distributor (McFarlane)

Note: MT does not recommend the MTV-12 the IO-390. The MTV-9 which is a bit more robust is the preferred prop.

I had an opportunity to fly an MT 3 blade installed on an O-360 180 hp on a C-175. I flew the in the plane before installation and had the opportunity to fly the plane after the installation. The previous prop was a 2 blade Hartzell. The difference can't be described.

I'd recommend you give McFarlane Aviation a call to discuss. Doesn't cost a thing to ask questions. I was able to talk to Dave McFarlane himself and found him to be incredibly interested in my project in RV's in general. By the Way McFarlane aviation is an advertiser on this site.

Link to McFarlane's prop page: https://www.mcfarlaneaviation.com/ar...ight-resource/

My 2 cents.
I'm also thinking about a MT prop in my RV 14 and contacted the factory a couple of weeks ago. They recommend the MTV-12 for the IO390 engine
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  #7  
Old 02-17-2021, 09:56 AM
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Jpm757 Jpm757 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Sherman, CT
Posts: 923
Default

Garth,
I have an MTV12B/183-59B 3 blade on my -7 with a YIO-360M1B.

Pros:
Incredibly smooth!!!!
Exceptional takeoff/climb performance.
No RPM limitations.
Maintenance free between overhauls ( no fittings to grease).
Very durable field repairable blades.
Lightweight (c.g. considerations).
Includes mounted/ painted complete spinner assembly.
Literally ready to bolt on.
Cons:
Pricey. $$
Prop shipped from Germany unassembled, mine sent to local prop shop for assembly & delivery. ($350).
16 week lead time from Van's in 2017.
Lightweight may cause c.g. issues.

400 hours on this setup, have flown in rain/snow/ice & lots of unimproved strips. Prop looks like new. Cruise speed against my buddy's O-360 2 blade Hartzell RV-8 is within a few knots. If I had a do over, I wouldn't change a thing.
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RV6 #20477 completed 1991 sold.
RV7 #72018 N767T first flight 11/21/2017
(KOXC)Oxford, CT, (0NY0)North Creek, NY.
1941 J3 Cub skis, floats.
Building Javron Super Cub.
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Last edited by Jpm757 : 02-24-2021 at 06:55 AM. Reason: Ad
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  #8  
Old 02-17-2021, 04:17 PM
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Champ Champ is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Kingsville, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 318
Default

Ordered an MTV-9B/183-50a from Vans a couple weeks ago to replace my Hartzell BA on my non-counterweighted IO375. The price from Vans was identical to the price direct from MT except Vans only required a 25% down payment - MT wanted 100% up front. Vans price included shipping to a local assembler - MT’s price was crating & shipping extra.

Delivery - 14 wk.

MT Customer Service was great in giving straight answers to questions.
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Bellanca Champ 7ACA since 1986, restored 1990.
RV-8 IO375, Hartzell CS, dual PMags, OW Award Oshkosh 2017
2021 Donation In

Last edited by Champ : 02-18-2021 at 06:57 PM.
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  #9  
Old 02-18-2021, 09:54 AM
SkyJunkie SkyJunkie is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Baldwin City
Posts: 8
Default

One of the McFarlane Aviation/Flight-Resource employees offers the following advice on the subject:

I am a former Vans RV-6 owner and current owner of an MT prop on a different plane and a direct affiliation with MT Propellers (one of the principals of Flight-Resource, recently merged with McFarlane Aviation Products). I do have a dog in this hunt, but also have had many years of opportunity to personally work with MT and Hartzell and Cato Propellers.

The most important point I wish to make in this post is that the MTV-12 series prop from MT is a ‘medium duty’ design. The MTV-9 series is the heavy duty design. Bare stock, Lycoming 4-cylinder (-320 and -360) engines with low compression pistons, magneto timing, counterweighted crankshafts and carbureted intake are perfect to mate with the MTV-12 series propellers…BUT…

Many builders ‘enhance’ the performance of these engines. I have seen many dyno tested well into the low to medium 200 HP ranges. The measured firing pulses felt at the propeller are massive compared to that measured on a stock version as described above.

These strong pulse vibrations sometimes ring at frequencies that match the natural resonance frequency of metal propellers. When this happens, very destructive things happen quickly. This is why there are yellow ‘do not operate’ RPM ranges when using metal props on many Lycoming 4-cylinder engines.

The wood-composite load carrying core of the MT prop is not affected by this. In fact, wood dampens vibration better than any propeller material known to date. Another benefit of the wood core is that is immune to stress risers or fatigue. A deep cut in an MT blade does not lead to blade failure like it does on a metal prop…and the MT blade can be repaired, with simple household epoxy by the owner.

Back to the MTV-12 vs MTV-9. If you are going to enhance the power of your -360 or - 390 Lycoming engine, you should be using a propeller designed for that application, in this case the MTV-9 series prop. The concerns voiced by some MT owners about grease leaks and bearing wear are matched almost 100% to the use of a prop that is being put to the edge of design limits. Those issues would not be present if the correct propeller were used.

Conclusions:
1: The Lycoming 4-cylinder engine design is nearly ‘bullet proof’ but produces very strong firing pulse vibrations felt by a propeller.

2: Counterweighted crankshaft engines assist with controlling vibration somewhat.

3: Use of a 3-blade prop vs a 2-blade prop helps control the destructive vibration.

4: The MTV-9 heavy duty 3-blade hub is recommended over the MTV-12 series for use on engines without counter-weights and for engines with ‘more than stock output.’

The experts of Flight-Resource / McFarlane Aviation are available to answer your questions and guide you to selection of the proper prop for your plane. They are the worlds largest volume MT distributor with the experience and thousands of flight hours of actual use and testing in their personal log books.

Flight Resource/McFarlane Aviation has a large inventory of MT Propellers in stock for immediate shipment, including propellers that fit VAN's aircraft.
If you need a propeller not in stock, Flight-Resource/McFarlane Aviation will special order MT Propellers from the manufacturer in Germany with only 25% down payment.
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  #10  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:18 PM
GarthR GarthR is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: SAINT CHARLES
Posts: 5
Default

Wow, thanks for the info everyone!

For all the reasons stated above and the fact that MT has a good history and reputation behind them I'm going to go with the MTV-9-B/183-50a for my 14a. I realize I will probably give up a few knots but I'm ok with that trade off. I have talked to McFarland and they have been very helpful. I haven't shopped it around yet but hopefully will get to that this week.

Thanks again for all the responses.

-Garth
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