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Old 04-19-2008, 09:25 AM
Walter Klatt Walter Klatt is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 48
Default RV-12 in Canada?

Since Canada does not have an LSA category, how can this plane be registered in this country? Normally, it would be done as a 51% Amateurbuilt, but as we know, that is on hold with the FAA right now.

And I know it can be done as a one-off AB here, just as in the US, but no guarantees on that one either. As I understand so far, you need to actually buy a kit first for them to evaluate, and the cost of that is extra, too.

There is also the 1232 lb Advanced Ultralight category, with similar rules to LSA, and it seems that it would qualify for that. But again, that is not available until Vans goes through the paperwork and qualifies it in that category. And I am not sure if there are any intentions for them with that.

Anyone else in Canada wanting to build an RV-12, and what options are you considering?

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Old 04-19-2008, 01:22 PM
RickWoodall's Avatar
RickWoodall RickWoodall is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,472
Default MDRA

Hey Walter.
Just a suggestion but call (dont email cause they NEVER respond) your nearest MDRA office. I find they are very good at getting you the answers. I have called several times through the build and they have always answered quickly or passed me off to those that can.
They are the inspectors through the build process and their web sit has lots of info.

The answer will be interesting, as my guess is it will fit in like the challengers, tecnams etc in the advanced ultralight, but...not sure about the homebuilt category stuff for the adv ul issues.

Good luck, post what you find a few other canucks might be interested.

Rick Woodall C-GSTT "ghost"
9a -TMX io-320, catto three blade, dual dynon hdx with a/p. 900+ hrs in 8 yrs flying.

Flew to Osh 11,12,15,17,19. SNF 2013. West to Cali /Washington/Vancouver/crossed the Rockies north to Red Deer east to Moosonee and over to maritimes. South to Jekyll Isl, cedar key, and Key West etc. 7 trips and 17 islands of the Bahamas. Flown turtles and dogs for Pilots n Paws too. Love our Rv's
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Old 04-19-2008, 06:22 PM
GRZZ GRZZ is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada
Posts: 7
Default RV-12 in Canada

Hi Walter,

I spoke to the MD-RA about building an RV12 in Canada a while ago. They told me that it could be done under the 51% rule, but because the kit has not been 'officially' evaluated for the 51% rule that each individual kit would have to be determined to be compliant with the rule first.

In my case, since I was one of the first to be asking about it, they suggested that I have someone go to Van's and evaluate the kit - at my expense. If the determination was made that it fitted in the 51% rule, then that particular serial number would be considered eligible to be built in Canada. This route was suggested to save me from purchasing a kit and then finding out that it didn't meet the rule. It would also mean that the whole kit (not just a sub-kit) would have to be ready for inspection. I have not pursued this any further since only the wing kit is available at the moment.

I also learned that the '51% list' is a 'common' list shared between the USA and Canada. This means that if the FAA evaluates a kit in the US to be compliant, then Canada accepts their evaluation, with the reverse also being true. This helps manufacturers like Murphy Aircraft who are located in Canada and are inspected by a local Canadian inspector and manufacturers like Van's, located in the USA and inspected by a local US inspector. Since the FAA has 'frozen' the list for the moment don't expect any additions to it for a while.

I hope that helps to answer your question. For a more detailed response and until the RV-12 kit is added to the 51% list I'd suggest you contact the MD-RA directly. They have a 1-800 number listed on their website, which is how I normally contact them.

Andy Cumming
120+ hrs and loving it

(Yes I already have a fun flying 9A, but I'm missing the building part and thought a 12 might be a fun project to address my need to build)
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Old 04-19-2008, 07:35 PM
Jasper Battjes Jasper Battjes is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Posts: 2
Default RV-12 in Canada


Thought about the same issues. Given the potential global market, I'd be very surprised if Vans didn't at least consider the 51% or AULA rules in their design. Quite willing to walk through the minefield. Will phone on Monday for this as well as pricing questions and canopy headroom questions. They may have to add another shift inorder to handle demand.


PS. That's one sweet RV that you built Andy!
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Old 04-19-2008, 08:37 PM
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SMO SMO is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Salmon Arm, BC
Posts: 934
Default Just went through a 51%

Hi Walter
I just went through a 51% inspection with my F1 Rocket (quickbuild). If you want to discuss the process let me know. I also have the worksheet. Travelling for the next week but will be in Vancouver the week of April 28.
Mark Olson
1987 RV-4 Sold
2003 Super Decathlon - Sold
F1 EVO Rocket, first flight May 31/14
First in line for the Sonex JSX-2T kit
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Old 04-19-2008, 09:23 PM
Walter Klatt Walter Klatt is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 48

At this time, am just exploring the options. If I end up going the one-off AB, I may take you up on the offer. Am still hoping that the 12 will eventually be FAA 51% approved.

I heard too, that the MDRA guys want a paid trip to Vans to view a complete kit, if I don't buy one first. And apparently, if one person does it, that is not good enough for anyone else. Everyone going through the one-off AB process has to follow the same process. However, can't see them accepting one, and rejecting another.

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Old 04-20-2008, 10:26 AM
InsideOut's Avatar
InsideOut InsideOut is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 155

What if you guys pay the CAA to fly to Vans and check out the RV-12 for '51%' approval. Would then the FAA would accept it through reciprocity?
Just a thought...
Rob Davis
Denver, CO
RV-12... here I come!
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Old 04-21-2008, 05:52 AM
RudiGreyling's Avatar
RudiGreyling RudiGreyling is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: South Africa, Johannesburg
Posts: 1,324

Originally Posted by InsideOut View Post
What if you guys pay the CAA to fly to Vans and check out the RV-12 for '51%' approval. Would then the FAA would accept it through reciprocity?
Just a thought...
Don't get me started on that...for a while this is exactly what happened here in South Africa. We as homebuilders had to sponsor an expensive trip for an CAA official overseas, to get the kit approved. South Africa is not around the corner you know. Some of these officials used it as a paid vacation, extending their trips etc, etc. We fought long and hard that if an similiar aviation authority approved, why do you want to redo the work, effort and expenses. As long if it is a reputable aviation authority accept the work done and move on from there!

We are making progress down here with these rules, but it is taking time and effort to reverse precidents set. If I decide to build a 12 I know it is going to be a whole lot of fighting and convincing from scratch, but no way am I sponsoring an international trip for an official!

Kind Regards
Rudi Greyling, South Africa, RV 'ZULU 7' Flying & RV 'ZULU 10' Flying
"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure...what more could you ask of life? Aviation offers it all" - Charles A. Lindbergh

Last edited by RudiGreyling : 04-22-2008 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 04-21-2008, 06:23 PM
Jasper Battjes Jasper Battjes is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Posts: 2
Default For what it's worth.

"The complete kit has to be evaluated at one time. The evaluation applies to that one example and does not in any way indicate that other examples are automatically eligible for construction under the rule."
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Old 01-31-2009, 11:10 PM
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BABA BABA is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 10

I would buy the RV12 Kit if Vans gets an AULA certification for Canada. Or if there is an easyway to build it as an SLA and import to Canada.

Last edited by BABA : 02-01-2009 at 12:11 AM.
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