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RV questions..

Jeffkent

Member
I am definitely not interested in building, but am considering purchasing a plane in a couple of years. This is just the research phase. The mission would be:

Trips under 400 NM
Almost always alone
Able to carry fishing equipment (waders, rod tubes, and basic fly fishing gear) plus a few days worth of clothing.
Wingspan less than 36’ to fit in my shop
Able to operate off of a 2,100’ grass strip (mowed Bermuda pasture with cattle fenced off) with room to spare on a hot day with power lines at each end. The elevation is about 1,100’ MSL.
Basic IFR to be able to punch through a layer, but I’d never fly a single with less than VFR ceilings
Aerobatics would be a plus

I’ve considered a 35 series bonanza, but the performance numbers are tighter than I want for potentially soft grass and the obstacles.

A Cessna won’t fit through the door

A 235 HP Maule is a flying truck and would easily do everything, but I really don’t need all of that cargo capacity or 4 seats, plus they are really slow.

That leaves the RV 7 or 8 as strong possibilities. I’m leaning towards the 8 for the tandem seating. Here are the questions.... Can the RV 8 comfortably operate off of my strip? Is the plane going to hold up to continuous grass field flying (no back country stuff, just grass farm strips)? Is there enough luggage capacity? Is it safe to strap a bag into the back seat for a cross country? And lastly, is an experimental a good fit for someone who has never owned or maintained a plane? I apologize for all of the questions, and thanks in advance for any advice.
 
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Welcome!
I think your research is about spot on, and further, your first shot ability to put the numbers together mean you are a perfect fit to make the short jump to "experimental". It sounds like that won't be an issue for you.

The only real question I see here is "luggage capacity", I would call it about the same, one up, and the condition of the strip. Hmm, the latter is up for very tight debate between -8 and -7. Very different gear design.

They'll both haul about the same. Yes, you can strap stuff anywhere you want. It seems that the hauling capacity of an A35 is way more than you need or want. The RV will jump off of your field (dry with one notch of flaps) in an instant with what you are talking about.
 
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Welcome!
I think your research is about spot on, and further, your first shot ability to put the numbers together mean you are a perfect fit to make the short jump to "experimental". It sounds like that won't be an issue for you.

The only real question I see here is "luggage capacity", I would call it about the same, one up, and the condition of the strip. Hmm, the latter is up for very tight debate between -8 and -7. Very different gear design.

I’m used to making 3,000 mile trips on a motorcycle, so packing small isn’t a problem. My clothes would easily fit into a soft sided duffel type bag. I’ve never even stood next to any RV, so I don’t know how big the cargo compartments are. A pair of chest waders and a couple of rods isn’t that much stuff. I have put the waders and gear in the trunk on my bike and strapped the rods down across the seat, so that should give you an estimate of the amount of gear that I’d want to take. I didn’t know if strapping a bag in an empty seat is safe either. Anything that I consider will definitely require extensive type specific training. I haven’t flown a piston engine in 25 years and have a lot to learn. The 8 is definitely more appealing to me since I want to fly aerobatics, and my wife has no interest in going anywhere in a little plane. A tandem seat plane capable of basic aerobatics, nice cruise speeds, low fuel burn, and short field sounds like a good match. My main concern is beating them up on grass. A Maule definitely more suitable for rougher fields, but they are slow and a 6 g pull is a one time trick.
 
The RV-4 is also an option. It will carry everything you mentioned and operate off a strip half that long.
 
lol, must mean somewhere around Pond Creek.
Come on down to OKC sometime and look me up. I can introduce you to some RVs.
I'll sent you a PM.

I’m between Pond Creek and Nash. A guy that I know from work was partners on a RV8 and a Cirrus of some type. I haven’t seen him since COVID hit, but he’s down around OKC somewhere.
 
I agree with Stan. The RV4 would be an obvious good choice for a couple reasons. It will do what you say you want - short field capability, tandem, plenty of cubic volume to haul what you need. The RV8 will haul more, like two people with luggage/camping equipment with it’s ability to load fore and aft to balance the larger load, but you said you will most likely be solo, so that may not be as important. My RV4 has an empty weight of 980# and a gross weight of 1500#, as designed by Van. With full fuel, plus me at 200#, I can carry 140# strapped into my back seat (and I can remove the seat cushions to allow more weight) or the aft baggage compartment. The biggest deal in those two selections is price if you’re buying vs building. The RV4 is basically 1/2 the price of a flying RV8. Either airplane would be a good choice, and so would an RV7, bit if money is anything more than a casual consideration, you can’t beat the RV4.
Since this would be your first airplane, if it’s a home built and you didn’t build it, you’ll need to find an A&P to do your condition inspection annually. Any other maintenance, upgrades, modifications, etc, you can do yourself - you don’t have to be an A&P, or the builder. The ONLY thing you need an A&P for is the condition inspection sign off. You can learn to do these things during your ownership when you feel comfortable with that.
 
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The 8 will work well, as would the 4. The problem might be the rods. Hopefully they break down. You could also make something that holds them on the belly. In my 8 in the back luggage compartment I can fit a full roll aboard bag and a duffle about the same size. In the front a small duffle, then there is the back seat if solo. I could probably live indefinitely in my 8 if I needed.
 
Glastar Sportsman

This is a Van’s site so blasphemous but what you describe as a mission sounds like an io390 powered Glastar sportsman.....
Sorry to ruffle any RV feathers.
 
Fishing rods, golf clubs, etc, have all been successfully accommodated in the tail cone area of tandem, and side by side RV’s. You just need to make tubes, or a shelf aft of the baggage compartment of any RV, and it’s not a problem. Fishing pole rods and golf club shafts are pretty light and don’t have any dramatic effect on CG. If you have a magnetometer back there somewhere, any steel shafted golf clubs, or fishing rods with steel eyelets, may have an effect on your magnetic heading indication....... ask me how I know, but easily remedied.
 
This is a Van’s site so blasphemous but what you describe as a mission sounds like an io390 powered Glastar sportsman.....
Sorry to ruffle any RV feathers.

Since I have had a chance to fly and evaluate most of the current popular experimentals, I’ll say that the Sportsman is a whole lot more airplane than his requirements suggest - and a whole lot more expensive as well!
 
I would have said the $ was good for your requirements, except that you want IFR capability. Without auto pilot I think the RV4 would need good pilot skills. I certainly would not like to try it, but I don't know what the RV8is like.
 
That leaves the RV 7 or 8 as strong possibilities. I’m leaning towards the 8 for the tandem seating. Here are the questions....

... And lastly, is an experimental a good fit for someone who has never owned or maintained a plane? I apologize for all of the questions, and thanks in advance for any advice.

I don't know any about 8 vs 4...I'm not a tandem kind of guy. I am under the impression that the 8 kits are pre-fabbed quite a bit which tends to make for an easier and more accurate build (by whoever built your plane).

As to maintenance, you don't have to do your own maintenance. Not all A&P/IA's are interested in working on E-AB's, but many or most are fine with it and if you want, you can have it maintained like it was a certified plane (although parts will be cheaper...avionics tend to cost about half that of certified, for example). I'm a flyer, not a builder. I like the idea that I can do the work, but I don't really want to. I'll pull inspection plates and interior etc for him at annual condition inspection (doing that now, in fact) to save a few $$, but anything forward of the firewall except plugs and oil change is all him. I'm brand new at Experimental aviation. Learning a lot...like trying to get a sip of water from a fire hose...but it's been a great ride so far.

..
 
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Fishing rod tube

I have seen a great fishing rod tube I plan to put in my -4 that was simply a 6" or so hole cut in the baggage bulkhead with a lightweight nylon sock similar to a skinny windsock attached to it and suspended from the rear fuselage bulkheads. You could slide the rods into it in one piece. In the -4 with the rear seat removed the "cargo area" is big enough for golf clubs. When I went to OSH a couple years ago, A tent, chair and week of clothes all fit in baggage, then I filled a duffle bag with 2 cases of hydration cans (on ice), tools and the tie downs, secured in the back seat with the 5 point harness like a passenger.
 
I would have said the $ was good for your requirements, except that you want IFR capability. Without auto pilot I think the RV4 would need good pilot skills. I certainly would not like to try it, but I don't know what the RV8is like.

I don’t want to fly in weather, or even cruise IMC, just to be able to get through a cloud layer and go somewhere on a nice day. If the weather is even remotely marginal VFR, I’m not taking any single engine airplane up. I’d want two engines, onboard radar, etc to fly in actual weather and those requirements are far more than I’d be able to spend. Besides that, when it turns into work, I’d rather doze in the back of an airliner.
 
I don’t want to fly in weather, or even cruise IMC, just to be able to get through a cloud layer and go somewhere on a nice day. If the weather is even remotely marginal VFR, I’m not taking any single engine airplane up. I’d want two engines, onboard radar, etc to fly in actual weather and those requirements are far more than I’d be able to spend. Besides that, when it turns into work, I’d rather doze in the back of an airliner.

I felt exactly the same way and IFR capability was something I wanted in the -9A I was shopping for. I don't anticipate ever filing IFR and weather is something I'm definitely inclined to avoid, but in the event that I'm ever surprised by a weather event and in a ceiling bind without good alternates, I want to have thetools to be able to get down.
 
If you hadn't mentioned wanting some acro capability, an RV-9 or -9A would do what you want. Take a look at some of the places Vlad goes into.

Dave
 
Well...

...I did love "my" Sportsman (owned 1/3), and it would be great for this. But it's probably overkill, and the cost will be CONSIDERABLY greater. In the cost-effectiveness category, this job seems to scream for a -4 or a perhaps a nice -6.

This is a Van’s site so blasphemous but what you describe as a mission sounds like an io390 powered Glastar sportsman.....
Sorry to ruffle any RV feathers.
 
If you hadn't mentioned wanting some acro capability, an RV-9 or -9A would do what you want. Take a look at some of the places Vlad goes into.

Dave

I’d be far more likely to fly something with aerobatic capabilities. That could be a fun toy. I’m also a pretty good sized guy and I’d like to be able to occasionally take a passenger on a trip or for an aerobatic ride. I’d never go fly a utility type plane just because it is a nice day. A go somewhere only plane would be nothing but a useful tool to be used when I wanted to travel. It sure would be handy to fly 1.5 hours to Gaston’s rather than drive for 7. I simply wouldn’t use a transportation only airplane enough to really justify having one. One of the things that I like about the RV line is that it is an all metal design, and there is a model for everyone. I’ve also given serious thought to just getting a really nice Pitts S1-S for around $50k and driving to go fish several times a year. The Pitts would fit my current 20’ roll up door without having to modify my shop, but it is purely a single purpose machine. COVID hit the airline industry hard, so I have time to think and save while I wait for some job stability to return.
 
Keep in mind that the aerobatic limit for a 7 and 8 is 1600lbs and if you have a passenger you need parachutes.

Tim
 
Keep in mind that the aerobatic limit for a 7 and 8 is 1600lbs and if you have a passenger you need parachutes.

Tim

What does a bailout rig even weigh? I used to allow 25 lbs for all of my video gear and rig when I was a skydive instructor, but that was for a different container and two canopies. Also, since I’m experienced under canopy, can you get something like a PD 193 reserve in these containers? I’m not going to want a round canopy, especially in Oklahoma winds.
 
don't forget the -6

same performance at a lower price point than most 7s and 8s. you can take the passenger stick and seatback out for large/long loads while keeping weight and balance easy. I did Swan River, MB back to Florida with 2 48 qt coolers full of bear meat and hide, camping and hunting gear for 10 days and a bow case. had plenty of room and weight left over if i had needed it.
 
One could almost buy a single seat Pitts and a RV 4 for the price of a good RV8, although properly maintaining both could get expensive. I don’t even know if IFR is a must for me. I’d really only want to go fishing on good weather days and I’m not a believer in single engine IMC unless you have redundant systems, backup instruments, an autopilot for something responsive like RV’s, and ceilings high enough to pop out of the clouds with a failed engine and have plenty of time to select a suitable landing spot and glide to it. Night IMC is out of the question unless I could glide to a lighted runway when clear of clouds. Is the cost of instruments and maintaining the plane IFR current even worth the expense if all I’m wanting to do is pop through a 3,000’ overcast or broken layer and cruise on top?
 
My vote...

My vote is a 7 or an 8. Simple avionics with the ability to add a GPS navigator. You just have to decide on tandem or not. Id recommend getting a flight in them. Also, what is your budget and how big of a fella are you, if you don't mind me asking?
 
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My vote is a 7 or an 8. Simple avionics with the ability to add a GPS navigator. You just have to decide on tandem or not. Id recommend getting a flight in them. Also, what is your budget and how big of a fella are you, if you don't mind me asking?

Haven’t really got around to a real budget number yet since I haven’t picked a model. I could see spending $100K for a well built 8, but obviously less if looking at a 4. A really nice Pitts S1S would run $45-50k. Right now I’m just trying to learn what will fit my shop and future strip and figure out what I’m wanting to get, and also if I even really want to get something. When the job situation stabilizes I want to go fly different planes. I might find that all I really want is to go up and tumble in a Pitts, I may want more basic aerobatics and the ability to travel in a RV, and I might find that it’s not for me. As far as the fat factor. I’m 5’, 10”” and about 225 lbs. Also fairly broad shoulders, so side by side in most certified planes that I’ve flown was cozy.
 
Seems like an 8 tail dragger would be the one. But, it sounds like you have plenty of time before the purchase to chew on choices and options that mean the most to you.
 
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