Cheapest RV Contest

I'd like to hear from folks who've got their planes in the air for surprisingly small amounts of cash. I'm hoping that the natural one-ups-manship of the group will shine through as people compete for the Most Frugal Builder Award. Let's hear from all you tightwads.

Steve Zicree
RV4 finishing

Mine wins so far at $79,000.00+ for my night VFR 7A.

Roberta

I can't wait for Jay Pratt to reply to this one. He has built one or two basic VFR RV's for an astonishing low cost which should be an inspiration for all of us builders. Jay?

About 6 years ago Bob Brashear told me he built his day VFR RV-6 for $28,000. He rebuilt the engine and painted it all himself.

B,

Cheapest RV by model

Shouldn't we be looking at this on a per model basis? Sure I'd love to build an aerobatic, high performing 2 seater, but my significant other and 3 boys would be left on the ground, so it's an RV10 for me! I suspect that the kit price alone is more than the total cost of some of the smaller models.

Let me be the first to say it and get it out of the way: I lose.

Cheapest RV!

This could prove to be pretty interesting! Maybe Doug could create an area, kinda like a survey, that would chart the different RV's and the costs to build.
Possible Doug??
BB

Instead...

How about instead of trying to have the cheapest RV, which might inspire some people to cut corners, we simply share ways to cut costs without cutting quality? Specifically I'm talking about sharing information on great deals on parts, supplies, etc.

The airframe is what it is. If you buy from Van's, the kit will cost X, no matter who you are (minus a repeat offender discount). Buy a partially completed kit, and you'll probably save money.

But when it comes to equipping & finishing the aircraft, that's where the big differences come into play.

Here's something I put together on the web recently for SoCal pilots:

RV Supplies PriceWatch

It's basically catered to most of the typical operation stuff like oil, tires, etc. There's nothing saying we couldn't extend it to be more builder-friendly, showing deals on avionics, engines, props, etc.

Anyway, my point is that instead of boasting about who has the cheapest RV, why not "spread the love" and help each other save $$$? If you know of a good deal, post it!

)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com

Thrifty RV

I am a proponent that anyone can have an RV.
The cheepest one I did, had, no options, repeat offender discount, a scrounged wood prop and a 1990 TT engine 0-320 E2D. I had it in the air for under $30,000. 1998/9 $ The engine cost $4800 with 1998 TTSN
The problem is the engine, you pay now, or you pay later. We got 400 hours out of this plane before the engine was rebuilt. Thats a long time for some people.
This plane, RV8, had a new Transponder and Mode C, with a used Com. Only what the FARs required in the panel. Now it is IFR, Lighted, And is flown buy an experienced War Vet and Airline Capt.

I could have done it for less if I went with a handheld com, and a boat cushion for a seat.

Oh yea, I was making $13 per hour as a an aircraft rebuilder. It took me 24 months to build this RV8. I payed as I went. No debt incured. My third RV, second personal one. Selling it helped me build www.RVCentral.US hanger.

I am not a tight wad. I just bought things as I could afford to. I think spending a lot of time looking for 'Deals' is time poorly spent. Better to work for $$ and buy parts. Get the plane done in a reasonable time period. The two years I spent on that RV8 was too long, but, I had a RV6 to fly.

I advise anyone building to try to get some flying in on a regular basis. Not good to have a new plane and no recent experience.

I built my RV-7 for 38K basic VFR with an 0-320 mid time fixed pitch no paint other than two coats of epoxy primer

I have installed an IFR panel and now working on my IFR ticket so this brings the total cost up to 46K still low dollaras for an IFR plane

I am planning on adding a few more items

but one has to love a plane that goes 180 plus mph lands in a short field and burns 7 gallons an hour for the same money as a midle of the line SUV

grinning in maine

Good to know

kcpgm said:

I built my RV-7 for 38K basic VFR with an 0-320 mid time fixed pitch no paint other than two coats of epoxy primer

I have installed an IFR panel and now working on my IFR ticket so this brings the total cost up to 46K still low dollaras for an IFR plane

grinning in maine

Click to expand...

Good to know these numbers. The goal for my RV-9 was $40K and I now think it will come in at $45K for a day/night VFR ship.

The biggest thing is the engine. I found my O-290 on barnstormers.com for $3,500, topped it myself and now only need to buy the emag/pmags and a carb. I figure the total cost of my engine will be around $7K. Not bad for 750 hours TT, 175 mph cruise, & 6 gph.

Grinning in NC

Cost of RV's

I have a flying 4, one radio (brand new VAL) an old transponder, old Loran C, and a hand held GPS. I bought the engine in 1988 for $2500cdn, rebuilt it my self. Wood Prop, donated paint, painted myself. Most of the panel came from a crashed C150 aerobat for $1000cdn. I have full gyro's, G meter etc.

I figure I have 30,000 cdn total in the AC. I started in the mid 80's, so things were a bit cheaper, but I think with some effort, you can still do it for a very reasonable cost.

YTQ was paid for the day I flew it, and I have already got my moneys worth and today she is worth about twice what I paid.

Joe Hine
C-FYTQ

My RV-4 has a Catto prop, Aerosport Engine (O320), Rocky Mountain MicroMonitor, MicroAir radio and transponder, and basic flight instruments, oh yeah, and no paint. Built for $35,000 USD.

RV-7- Building on the cheap

I am not finished yet, but so far this is what I got into it, including most of the big parts.

**Engine: O-360A1A (600 hours) with accessories and prop off a wrecked Apache (with 180hp Geronimo Mod). Total $10,000

**(Bought engine for $2,500. Sold off parts not needed or wanted (big starter, prop gov, wet vacuum pump, exhaust system, rubber mounts and prop w/ damaged blade, and rebuilt for $8,000 with help of friend. Considered just using it but the questioned the crank coming off a damaged plane, crank was fine but needed a AD anyway and spared no expense here.))

Used Hartzell C2YK: $2,500, bought from prop shop made with used blades and hub. They go used for $3,500 now, and new ones are not much more, so new might be better. Of course the deal is the fixed pitch Sensenich.

Woodward Governor: $400, Yellow tagged from Prop/accessory shop selling off inventory (trade-A-plane). Older model #210105 which is a good gov but not the latest model (#2107xx), common on early Mooney's and Lakes with 180HP engines.

Ebay:

Garmin 195 GPS $300 (fantastic gps , out of production)
Transponder Collins TDR-950 $300 (small, powerful and available use)
***Exhaust 4 into 1: 4 into 1 $600: http://www.aircraftexhaust.net/
Starter, New light small PM type: $190
SW oil cooler used/overhauled: $150
Bent whip comm ant: $40 (high end model)
Transponder ant: $18
Artex ELT: $150
Alternator $90 (no need to spend $600 for an alternator)
Whelen solid-state flasher- $20 wig-wag
Aeroflash Strobes and Nav Lights: 3 remote DF strobes/nav lights $350
(You can get much cheaper using emergency vehicle strobes)
SOLD: sold lots of stuff and got top dollar to pay for my RV.

Airshow special:

Dynon D-10, mag module, AOA probe: $2300
EIS4000 Engine monitor w/ FF, amps and everything! $1500
Comm Radio: icom A200 $600
Classicaero Interior: Seats $ 650
Nav Aid Autopilot/smart couple $1,000
http://www.classicaerodesigns.com/Products/SearchResults.asp?ProductCategoryID=5


Misc Electrical/Aircraft systems, controls, tubes, wires, clips, hardware, landing lights: Van's aircraft, internet, airshows, eBay, home-made (landing light, light dimmer), surplus and fee-bees (fuel pump) from friends. $500

RV-7 KIT: (Sun-N-Fun) Initial price (pre price increases) and repeat offender discount, bought whole kit at once for lower shipping. Slow build of course. $14,500

GRAND TOTAL Approx $34,500 (so far) Obviously a RV-7 with a fully rebuilt 180HP, new accessories, custom 4 into 1 exhaust, Hartzell constant speed prop, EFIS digital "glass panel", digital engine monitor, autopilot with lights is not bare bones. I am not done yet, but the above represents the major part of the build. The only thing left to buy is dual electronic ignition (LS or E-mag?) and seat belts. So Est final total is well under $40,000.

Also, this is not my first plane, so I know there are more cost to come and things that some builders don't include like primer, fiberglass supplies etc... As far as tool's, well they are my children and since I have collected them over the last 15-20 years I don't include that in cost. Got a pneumatic squeezer a few years ago, don't know how I lived without it, and yes I got it on sale.

To keep cost down it will be unpainted for some time and a $8,000 custom professional paint job is not in the plan. No I am not that cheep, but you can save lots of money by shopping around, planning a head and buying used, discount, sales. The biggest money to save is in the prop / engine. Your best bet is a flying engine prop combo out of a RV that is upgrading, especially if you get accessories, exhaust, baffles and so on. Other items like Interior can be done cheaply, but my skills and the quality of the off the shelf stuff represents a better value to me. I am not going to make the all time cheap award, but a good RV with nice stuff for under $40,000 is my reward. If there are any deals you got to look. Network with EAA chapters, Ebay, Trade-a-plane, internet sites with aircraft classified ads like barnstormers, etc....

(Ebay, there are tricks and tactics to getting the best deals or selling stuff. Also how you search is important. Sometimes deals are in the wrong category or listed under odd titles. You got to look. When you find them sometimes no else sees it and you can get a great deal. Also don't get in to a bidding war or pay too much. Sometimes others are too willing to overbid, which is great for the seller; don't get sucked in. There will be another one coming along. )

Also on this site there where two very complete RVs not yet flown but close, for sale in the $30's. That is always an option if you are not picky, but why are they selling it? Sometimes it is for financial, health or personal reasons, and other times they are selling because of some kind or building error they made. One guy bought a RV-4 almost complete real cheap, but he later found the wing spar bulkhead was in wrong. It was repairable, but with a lot of "custom" work.

Last resist the urge to put every do-dad into your plane. You don't need a $10,000 EFIS or $8,000 GPS/COM/NAV. Leave room or wires for future upgrade/expansion. My pet peeve is heated pitots on VFR planes because they look better than the bent pitot tube van's supplies. Save $500 and a few pounds of weight and forget it, unless you are a hard core all weather flyer. Even IFR you don't need pitot heat most of the year in many parts of the country. Ice=visible moisture (like in a cloud) plus freezing temps; No freezing temp or moisture (vis< 1 mile) = no ice. Lights? Fly at night a lot? Do you need the latest color GPS? Many lower priced used and new units are available. Don't need an autopilot, nice but ...You can always run wires and add things later. Alternators with internal voltage regulators are fantastic, cheap, light and the likely hood of a wild over voltage condition some claim can happen is like getting hit by lightning, unlikely and rare. Don't get hyped into a $750 alternator and external voltage regulator. Stories of OV are overblown, sketchy, vague and are usually an old story of an old externally regulated alternator system of the past and does not apply to a modern Denso alternator. In the end you will have a lighter RV that climbs faster, handles better, has more useful load and is a little faster.

Happy bargain hunting George

PS Aircraft Exhaust
http://www.aircraftexhaust.net/
***Actual 4 into 1 list price is now approx $1,200. I was lucky to bid on it and get it. They did the Ebay thing to get interest when they first were offering the custom exhaust idea. I got a deal needless to say. I can say the quality is top notch and they now have off the shelf systems, including 4 into 1 ands a cross over system with dual Mufflers/heat muffs. Yes mufflers for that quite ride, which includes and integrated, heat muffs. Very nice. Check them out. I don't work for them or feel I need to advertise but like to share good info with fellow builders as an option. I don't think they are giving it away on Ebay any more and guess their prices are not going to bargain basement, but you get what you pay for. There are some areas not to go cheap. Cheap exhaust systems are a pain if they crack all the time or can be a real safety hazard.

Thanks

George,

Those of us building on limited funds really appreciate advice from experienced buildiers like yourself. It's easy to get initimidated by the $100,000 crowd, so to read of a well equiped plane for $40,000 is super encouraging.

Steve Zicree
RV4 finishing

For me, most of the fun of building is in striving to get the absolute best bang for the buck. I'm on a tight budget and I just can't afford to get sucked into the more $$$ crowd (which is the majority, I might add) $40K is my goal for the RV-7. I don't think I'll have a problem reaching that goal.

Well, you may need to adjust these figure for inflation but my -6 cost me $32k by the time it was finished in '92. I bought a 1700 hour O-320 for $3700.00 which ran great until Chevron sold me some sour gas in California. At the time, the engine had 1910 hours on its first run. Fortunately, Chevron's insurance foot the bill for a reman by Lycoming as well as paid me another $1k to remove and install the engine. I used the extra bucks to buy an early Vetterman exhaust system. All my avionics and most but not all of the instrumentation was new. Interestingly, the used instrumentation I purchased, mostly at Oshkosh and Sun 'n Fun, didn't last more than a couple hundred hours. I guess, somethimes you get what you pay for.

On the other extreme, my -8 cost is nowhere close to this frugal figure. But I do have the airplane I want and it is all paid for. What more can you ask for?

Rick

rickrv8 said:

I bought a 1700 hour O-320 for $3700.00 which ran great until Chevron sold me some sour gas in California. At the time, the engine had 1910 hours on its first run. Fortunately, Chevron's insurance foot the bill for a reman by Lycoming

Click to expand...

Out of curiousity, what can bad gas do that requires a rebuild?

Jet fuel is my guess

http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng200.htm

-Jim

Bad Gas

Chevron mixed jet and 100LL at the refinery. As I understand the problem, the jet fuel will lower the octane and can cause pre-ignition. In my case, the fuel was all used up on my way back to the Chicago, where we were living at the time. Chevron contacted me in short order and eventually had the engine remanufactured. If I remember, they were on the hook for 1900 airplanes effected by the screw up in Northern California. Not quite the lottery but sure close.

Rick McBride

Not the cheapest, but a New airplane

Having owned production airplanes, cheap is a relative term. In my paradigm, I wanted a cheap NEW airplane!

So, I went with new engine (Superior $19,490) a new prop (Hartzell $5,250) the RV-7A slow build kit (~$23,000 with Firewall forward kit and all shipping). I have a new Garmin 295 GPS, New Dynon EFIS, New Apollo sl40 and new King KT-76C. New Autopilot. All new Van's guages. (~$7500 in the panel). I'm in for about $56,000 including misc. stuff so far (no paint). But I have a BRAND NEW, 200+ mph, night VFR airplane. That I can work on. To me that's very cheap for a new airplane. It simply can't be touched for 3 times the price in the production airplane market!

My RV-6 first flew for about $28,000 in 1993. No paint, VFR panel with all gyros, Com, Transponder, Loran.
Mel...DAR

Wow there are some low budget RV's out there (notice I diddn't say cheap ) I am impressed with anyone that can build one with mostly new parts for around the $40000 mark.
Being in Aus building an RV is a fair bit more expensive so I don't think I have a chance in this competition.

Hidden cost of painting

vanlle2000 said:

RV-6 $23,500 painted and complete with used O-320 and wood prop. First flight late 93. Thought I'd done well until a friend completed one for even less seven years later! HE got written up in Sport Aviation.

Click to expand...

I read that article years ago and your friend was an inspiration to me. You can get all the back copies of EAA's Sport Aviation on CD for something under $200. May be a few builders or a chapter can go in on it.

Paint can add value, protection and may be a little extra speed with a nice smooth finish. The down side is cost and weight, and a bad paint job is worse than no paint. In just materials you are looking at close to $2,000. My biggest advice is for those who farm it out, which is not a bad move, be careful about guaranteed cost. My first RV a RV-4 I had painted by a pro. I was quoted $4,500 and ended up with a $7,000 bill. They claimed they had to do extra prep work? Checking the bill it was full of extra cost including paint for other planes and lots of supplies like several paint suits and a doz. of filters. They even tacked on environmental cost of waste liquid disposal they did not mention. I did get the bill knocked down a little. It did come out great, but I would never do that again. My current RV-7 will go unpainted except for the primed fiberglass. When I paint I'll do all the prep work, including primer. I will consider painting the final finish myself or find a painter, even an automotive guy, to shoot the finish coats. A good place to paint is the biggest problem. A simple one color paint job (white) with vinyl graphics can be a good way to go. Red paint is very expensive and multi stripes adds time and cost to paint. If you do it yourself plan on well over 100 hours of work. Some of the fancy paint jobs you have seen cost well over $10,000.
Cheers George

I loose too

Fortunately I had equity in a home that I had paid on for 20 years and was able to get an equity line of credit to cover what I felt was needed for a airplane rated fast, high,far and night IFR. Count me in the $100K crowd - it hurts but it is sweet!

Bob Axsom

szicree said:

George,

Those of us building on limited funds really appreciate advice from experienced buildiers like yourself. It's easy to get initimidated by the $100,000 crowd, so to read of a well equiped plane for $40,000 is super encouraging.

Steve Zicree
RV4 finishing

Click to expand...

My feeling exactaly. A $100k plane is as far out of reach to me as a multi-million dollar mansion or supermodel girlfriend! But a $40-50k ship, spread out over 4-6 years...that obtainable.

RV-8A for $36K!

Back in 2002 I finished and flew my RV-8A for about $36K... At the time Van's said it was the cheapest they had heard of... It was also the lightest at 997 Lbs...

-Bill
www.rv8a.com

You get what you pay for

Let's get serious here....we don't want to be fooling people into starting building with unrealistic cost projections.

The cost of a Vans two seat kit today (including FWF kit) is approx $25k ex factory (and $33K for QB). For many people there will be taxes on top of that.

People planning on building a NEW simple, decent, plain jane, vanilla VFR plane should consider that the Vans kit will probably only represent about one-third of the cost of the final product.

Forget about ridiculous figures like $36K.

I hear about all these super low cost RVs. But when you get down to the nitty gritty the stated costs tend to be totally misleading.

In the end the planes turn out to be unpainted (inside or out), have clapped out near time expired engines, have no safety accessories other than cheap seatbelts, have a panel full of unreliable chinese guages and a 30 year old radio out of a Cessna, have seats that give you a numb bum after 20 minutes, and have no lights.

In addition the builders haven't got a clue of the real cost because they have kept no precise log of all invoices. Furthermore they don't include the cost of the tools they had to purchase specifically to build and maintain the plane....nor the ongoing cost of all the workshop sundry purchases they incurred along the way.

Then there was the builder's insurance, the freight costs, the cost of getting the plane to the airport when it was finished etc etc etc. Some people just don't want to include these items in the cost of building. They reason that if it doesn't get fitted to the plane it's not part of the cost of building.

Yeh.....tell that to your wife!!!!

Building a plane is like everything else in this world...you get what you pay for...there's no magic. If the plane is cheap...well, it's probably el-cheapo.

Bob Barrow

I count $18,000 for a 4 kit with firewall forward kit. Personally, my plane has real comfy tempur foam with homegrown upholstery, no lights, wood prop, new 0360 and when done will be anything but nasty.

My goal for the IFR -7 is <$50K. Most of that extra will go into the panel (GNS 480?)

New Aerosport Power motor, basic VFR panel, MicroMonitor, and Catto Prop on an unpainted RV-4 came in at approx. $35,000.

I am one of those who didn't keep detailed logs of my expenses. The plane will be worth whatever anyone is willing to pay for it.

"Cheap" is relative, and varies with time...

Demo rides about 15 years ago were known as the "$30,000 free ride", 'cause good, basic RV's were rolling out of shops at that time for around 30k. I think now they're probably known as $50-$60k "free rides", but todays average planes aren't as "basic" as they were then...
I hope to keep it under 60k by the time I'm done in 4 years or so, but who can say? I want solid, safe, reliable transportation, with A/P and glass suitable for day/night VFR, but no other frills.

My 6A was $30k, if you don't count the engine, prop or panel.

I'm a fairly good scrounger when necessary, and I can't imagine how you guys can get a flying RV for about the same amount as I stated above.

Did you really keep ALL the receipts?

I have almost $30,000.00 in the panel alone...

I did keep recipts. I went with a rebuild engine and prop. Went a little overboard on the panel, but still spent over $76,000.00.

Please don't tell my wife.

Kent

AlexPeterson said:

My 6A was $30k, if you don't count the engine, prop or panel.

I'm a fairly good scrounger when necessary, and I can't imagine how you guys can get a flying RV for about the same amount as I stated above.

Did you really keep ALL the receipts?

Click to expand...

Partially because back in 1989 the RV-6 kit was just over $10K and I paid $3500 for a first run O-320, $300 for a used Warnke prop. All instruments were OHC. My initial cost into the air (not including paint) was $28K.

My record keeping of expenses was much more accurate than my build time log. My grand total was $65k. That includes most shipping costs, specialty tools, DAR visit, one failed paint job, and rental trucks to move things around.

What did I got for my money? A slow build RV9 with zeroed PennYan Aero O320 160hp, FP Sterba prop, mag and Lightspeed ignition, airmap 1000, KX 125 navcomm, IK engine monitor, etc.

Of course, there is very little money left in my pocket, but when I open those hangar doors...........Yeah baby!!!!!

bsacks05 said:

Of course, there is very little money left in my pocket, but when I open those hangar doors...........Yeah baby!!!!!

Click to expand...

Of course, all you've done is transfer the money from your pocket to your hangar....you haven't "spent" a thing, because you can always get all that money back if you sell the plane. In essence, the airplane is free - it only costs you to operate it! At least, that's what I tell myself.....

A different approach...

I have used a different approach to having a low cost RV.

I purchased a damaged one and am rebuilding it.

Because it had been flipped inverted on a bad landing and had an unrepairable propeller, a bent Crankshaft, and ECI cylinders that were affected by the 800 hr life limit AD, I got the entire airplane for a very reasonable price.

I exchanged the Cyls with ECI using there rebate for $1200, had Bart at aerosport power go through the engine and replace the crank.

I did all of the other rebuild/repair work. when done I will have a basically new RV-6A with a gyro panel, garmin XL250 moving map GPS/Com and digital xponder, Newly overhauled engine and new Sensenich propeller in the for just over $22,000 (minus exterior paint; it had never been painted which made it much more desirable as a rebuilder)

Hardly relevant to anything.

Mel said:

Partially because back in 1989 the RV-6 kit was just over $10K and I paid $3500 for a first run O-320, $300 for a used Warnke prop. All instruments were OHC. My initial cost into the air (not including paint) was $28K.

Click to expand...

Back in 1969 I bought a brand new MG B MKII with electric overdrive on third and fourth gears, chromed wire wheels, a tonneau cover, and a snazzy push button radio with an electric aerial... all for the sum of $2400.... and INCLUDING the paint job.

So is that relevant in any way to the dollar cost of purchasing a car today...of course not ! That MG cost me more in terms of units of weekly wage then than a Mercedes Benz does today. It was NOT a cheap car at $2400 back in 1969.

So what is the relevance of builders quoting dubious RV project costs for projects involving superceded models that were started in a previous century.

What prospective builders need to know is what it costs to build a current model...today....and including paint...and including ALL necessary dollar items required to finish and maintain the plane (eg tools).

Some people are saying: "Look at me, look at me... I built an RV2 for $5000 just after WWII but that doesn't include the paint job or the tools.....oh, and I didn't keep any record of my purchases in general". Is this meaningful information?

Instead of just dwelling on the least expensive projects (the planes you never see any pix of) I think we should start looking at the MOST ADMIRED RV projects and find out what they cost...all up. That might truly be more enlightening.

Perhaps Paul Dye could start the ball rolling. His RV8 seems like a fine example. If his wife doesn't read this forum he might like to let us in on the final cost...including tools.

Cheers Bob

Disneyland dream perhaps

osxuser said:

My goal for the IFR -7 is <$50K. Most of that extra will go into the panel (GNS 480?)

Click to expand...

Most of that "extra" will go into the panel......ha ha ha ha...heh heh heh...please excuse me 'cause my ribs are hurting from laughing so much. That's the funniest joke I've heard this year. It IS a joke isn't it...tell me you're not serious

The cost estimate on Vans website for a QB RV7 with a new O-360 (carbie), CS prop, lighting, pro paint job, and with tools...but only VFR ....is $79520 to $88000.

And in addition....at the risk of really depressing you....Vans low end figures are notoriously tongue-in-cheek. In fact smart people use their high end figure as the low end figure.

I note that Vans don't even have an IFR option in their cost estimator any more....they probably took it out because it was frightening people.

Please enlighten us as to where this figure of <$50k came from (including a GNS 480). Is it a calculated budget/estimate...[text here removed by dr - rules viol.]

Bob Barrow

[text here removed by dr - rules viol.]
If I recall correctly, OSXUSER is an active A/P and I'm sure comes across a ton of deals on used gear, can do his own engine, and will probably do his own paint.
[text here removed by dr - rules viol.]
I certainly may have it wrong, but that's how it comes across.

I'm building in South Africa RV9 Empernage, wings, and engine 0320 complete.
Know way's i shall finish under 60k vfr panel.

szicree said:

Dude, I have yet to see the trophy case for your perfectly constructed airplane. .

Click to expand...

Steve, I ran a manufacturing business for most of my life and I never tried to produce the cheapest product on the market place. My philosphy was to produce a quality product at a reasonable price...and I'll tell you why. If a person's sole aim is to produce the cheapest product on the market he can never be commercially successful because there will ALWAYS be some-one out there who will produce a nastier product at an even cheaper price...there's just no bottom to the barrel when the sole focus of interest hinges on price alone.

Here, we're talking about building aeroplanes. They're like life support systems when you fly over inhospitable terrain, or at night, or in IMC. Discussions of how cheaply they can be made without regard to the quality of the components they are fabricated from are without merit. The same might be said of reducing costs by deleting fundamental safety features.

It's a meaningless discussion that reappears from time to time and serves no purpose other than to encourage prospective builders with insufficient funds to enter the fray...often leading to financial stress and corner cutting (or project abandonment) as their completely unrealistic budget goes through the roof.

We would be better served discussing the real costs likely to be incurred by the average builder of constructing and maintaining a quality plane so that prospective builders can make an informed decision before committing themselves.

And Steve, don't take this post personally. I'm just talking generally. I'm not referring to your plane....I've never seen your plane. There's no need to be defensive.

Exchange rates?

Craig Todd said:

I'm building in South Africa RV9 Empernage, wings, and engine 0320 complete.
Know way's i shall finish under 60k vfr panel.

Click to expand...

Hi Craig,
Have you compensated for the exchange rates between dollars and Rand?

Bob,
This thread was started by a poster who wanted to find out how cheaply an RV can and has been built. Not cheap in safety measures but in real dollars and a safe, airworthy airplane. We bought a used engine out of a Comanche that was flipped by a severe thunderstorm for $8500. Transponder for $750, good used seatbelts for $150 and so on. Our airplane has a rebuilt carb, new Slick mags a Classic Aero interior, strobes, landing lights and a full steam gage panel...all for around $55,000.

We in no way sacrificed safety and used all aircraft hardware and complied with all AD's etc. I believe that if we went VFR day only, fewer instruments (gyros) and a spartan interior, it could have been done well under $50,000.

Regards,

(clearing throat sound)

....from the forum rules page.


"Language that would be inappropriate in the polite company of strangers is quite unwelcome here."


Please respect my wishes.


Doug Reeves
Forum Owner

Thanks Doug

Thanks for posting a "Cheapest RV Contest" discussion! I wouldn't think folks could become so passionate over such a thing!
My RV-4 will come in under $40K, and depending on what kind of engine deal I come up with, maybe even less!
I think I read in an issue of RVAtor a guy build his RV-6 for around $32K. I know it can happen and be a safe, reliable airplane!

Bob,

The idea that low cost means shoddy or unsafe is baloney. Ways to save a ton:

1. Paint it yourself. This can save several thousand dollars and come out every bit as nice as a pro job if you're willing to learn.

2. Do your own upholstery. You'll save at least $500, maybe a grand.

3. Build your own panel and harnesses. Wiring is easy to learn and fun. The info is available if you look.

3. Buy second hand kits. They are often still in the crates and are a good bit cheaper. Same goes for tools. This could probably cut 1/3 from the total cost of kits and tools.

4. Go wood prop. Gotta save a couple grand over CS.

5. Go Dynon and an engine monitor. Cheap, simple and complete.

6. Go ECI kit engine. Great engine, great price.

None of these items compromise safety or appearance, and will easily save many thousands. Certainly the days of $25,000 airplanes are behind us, but including planes with $30,000 panels in the discussion is just as irrelevant.

Finally, regarding taking this personally, you repeatedly imply that those of us trying to keep costs down are building ugly junk full of cut corners and hidden safety issues. You don't come out and say who, but instead paint with the broadest possible brush. When challenged, you simply say you were talking about someone else. At the risk of sounding like Dr. Phil, I think they're calling this passive-aggressive behavior these days.

Well stated, Steve.

I think this is a fantastic thread because there are a lot of us who want to get in the air safely and for a reasonable amount of money. There are also some who seem to want to keep RV flying the privilege of the deep-pocketed. And, there also seem to be some whose egos are threatened by Van's making it possible for anyone with basic skills and perseverance to build a fantastic and safe airplance. Before Van's, this was something that only a small elite could do.

In my case, for a simple VFR -9, mid-upper range of Van's estimator seems to be right on. A lot of people can certainly spend more if they choose (and I think this forum is heavily weighted toward tech people who have lots of excess $$ to be able to do so) but more is not necessary to have a safe, reliable, good performing RV. The more I get out and see some of the "old-timers" RV's, the more I'm convinced of this. Steve's list above is a good place to start if someone wants to get into the air for a reasonable amount.

The "Value" of this Thread.....

To me, this is a great thread, not for the numbers it generates, but for the ideas that people are putting down for how you CAN save money if you need to - and how to do it without compromising safety. Steve Zicree's post just above is a perfect example.

Forget the numbers. I could build the airplane for free if I won the kit, an uncle gave me an engine, I found an avionics shop going out of business that gave me their spare wire, etc, etc....but that doesn't mean anything. Sharing and archiving the ways that people have saved money to get flying is great!

And while no one will ever accuse me of building a cheap airplane....I can't think of another airplane out there that could give me anywhere near the overall bang for the buck!

Paul