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  #1  
Old 09-19-2021, 08:42 PM
rcarsey's Avatar
rcarsey rcarsey is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 270
Default AOG - Block Island, RI

Seems me and my CFI are stuck on the island for at least tonight. The #2 fuel pump is dead.. not even the light on the switch is illuminated. Any ideas? (Other than flying with one pump)
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Rob Carsey, North Brunswick NJ
RV-12iS (N713) / Completed 12/2020
ASEL, Glider, AGI/IGI, LSRM-I, FCC GROL

Last edited by rcarsey : 09-19-2021 at 09:03 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-20-2021, 05:36 AM
Bob Y Bob Y is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Piedmont, SC
Posts: 288
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Either would be a PIA, but maybe do some substitutional trouble shooting and swap the switches or the power connectors at the pumps to see if the problem stays with the pump or moves. Would help zero in on the issue.
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Bob Y - builder 12iS E-LSA
N569TT first flight 2/9/2020
#121047
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  #3  
Old 09-20-2021, 05:50 AM
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rcarsey rcarsey is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 270
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I don't think there is any power/signal and/or ground getting to the switch. But because of the way the LED lightbulb in the switch is wired in, I believe it's the ground that isn't grounded. That is the only common wire shared between both the switch and the bulb. I think the power circuit from the fuse box to the pump is OK though.

I think the quick fix to get home is to find the power leads to the "broken" pump behind the center channel. Cut them. and tie them into the Red & Black terminals that are located back there. There are fusing issues with this though.
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Rob Carsey, North Brunswick NJ
RV-12iS (N713) / Completed 12/2020
ASEL, Glider, AGI/IGI, LSRM-I, FCC GROL
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  #4  
Old 09-20-2021, 06:32 AM
Bob Y Bob Y is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Piedmont, SC
Posts: 288
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Rob, it looks like wire #6267 is the one common to both the LED and pump power. See attached from the schematic. Could be a bad connection at pin #7 on the HIC connector.
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N569TT first flight 2/9/2020
#121047

Last edited by Bob Y : 09-26-2021 at 08:13 AM.
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  #5  
Old 09-20-2021, 07:18 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 6,548
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I would bridge a wire from the Pitot heat, landing lights or similar sized (10 amps) source and wire directly to the pump via it's pigtail or pull the supply side wire from the pump switch and bridge there. You can buy some small wire nuts and cutter/stripper at the hardware store to do this. You can put it all back together properly back home after troubleshooting.

Larry
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N11LR - RV-10, Flying as of 12/2019

Last edited by lr172 : 09-20-2021 at 07:20 AM.
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  #6  
Old 09-21-2021, 05:01 PM
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rcarsey rcarsey is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 270
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The 8-pin connector in Bob Y's last image was the culprit. Although the connector was fully seated and latched, there seemed to be some play in it and lightly touching the wires/connectors would make some of the pins disconnect from the socket in the HIC module. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09ZESkYkpEM

This is particularly alarming because this 8-pin connector is a "jesus bolt". If it is disconnected, or in this case, loose, there is the potential for both fuel pumps to turn off. I've contacted support this morning because I think this might be a safety/design issue.

I'm not sure why it is loose -- could be the plug, socket, pins, or maybe some tension/stress from the wires pulling on the plug, etc.

I've also looked at a few past flights in the Garmin Logbook and charted the Fuel PSI on some randomly picked flights. Apparently this issue has been occurring intermittently since at least Oshkosh 2021. The indication is that the fuel psi would drop about 2 psi instantly and return some minutes later.. which I wouldn't notice in flight. (ie. 46 psi vs 44 psi)

The plan is to replace the ES-60009 HIC module with a ES-60009-1 HIC module (apparently it has a skirt to prevent things from getting underneath the pcb). I'm going to extend the wires with 12&14ga tefzel, solder sleeves -- enough to help avoid the abrupt bend in the wires. Put a new molex connector on and use the TPA (Terminal Position assurance) inserts which help prevent the pins from moving around inside the connector. Depending on how secure/flopping around the wires are, I may secure them further with an adel clamp somewhere.
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Rob Carsey, North Brunswick NJ
RV-12iS (N713) / Completed 12/2020
ASEL, Glider, AGI/IGI, LSRM-I, FCC GROL
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  #7  
Old 09-21-2021, 05:07 PM
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Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Hinckley, Ohio
Posts: 2,543
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I have looked at the 12iS, and especially the fuel plumbing behind the rear baggage bulkhead, wondering how an old man like me would service something like that.

I guess Ill be happy with my legacy 12 knowing the spare Bing carb floats and tools I carry with me can save the day and get me home
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Jim Stricker - EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC N86203
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub N6841H
Bought Flying RV-12 #120058 Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 740

LSRM-A Certificate 2016 for RV-12 N633CM
Special Thanks... EJ Trucks - USN Crew Chief A-4 Skyhawk
MJ Stricker (Father - CFI) - USAAF 1st Lt. Captain B-17H
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  #8  
Old 09-26-2021, 04:36 AM
PEB PEB is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Denmark
Posts: 20
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I have had exactly the same problem. It was pin number 8 i the Molex connector ES-60012. Fuel Pump 2 GND.
It was melted in the tip due to poor connection. See first picture.

It happend once when flying and I troubleshooted and found when I pushed the connector slightly to one side the connection was reestablished and when I let go of the connector, there was no connection in the Molex connector.
I then unplugged and plugged the connector a few times and all seemed to work, but a few flighthours later pump nr. 2 stopped again.

Now I did not trust the Molex connector any more and decided to change it to an Automotive connector I knew worked. See pictures.




Quote:
Originally Posted by rcarsey View Post
The 8-pin connector in Bob Y's last image was the culprit. Although the connector was fully seated and latched, there seemed to be some play in it and lightly touching the wires/connectors would make some of the pins disconnect from the socket in the HIC module. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09ZESkYkpEM

This is particularly alarming because this 8-pin connector is a "jesus bolt". If it is disconnected, or in this case, loose, there is the potential for both fuel pumps to turn off. I've contacted support this morning because I think this might be a safety/design issue.

I'm not sure why it is loose -- could be the plug, socket, pins, or maybe some tension/stress from the wires pulling on the plug, etc.

I've also looked at a few past flights in the Garmin Logbook and charted the Fuel PSI on some randomly picked flights. Apparently this issue has been occurring intermittently since at least Oshkosh 2021. The indication is that the fuel psi would drop about 2 psi instantly and return some minutes later.. which I wouldn't notice in flight. (ie. 46 psi vs 44 psi)

The plan is to replace the ES-60009 HIC module with a ES-60009-1 HIC module (apparently it has a skirt to prevent things from getting underneath the pcb). I'm going to extend the wires with 12&14ga tefzel, solder sleeves -- enough to help avoid the abrupt bend in the wires. Put a new molex connector on and use the TPA (Terminal Position assurance) inserts which help prevent the pins from moving around inside the connector. Depending on how secure/flopping around the wires are, I may secure them further with an adel clamp somewhere.
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RV-12iS
Experimental
Denmark

Last edited by PEB : 09-26-2021 at 11:32 AM.
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  #9  
Old 09-26-2021, 01:41 PM
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jrtens jrtens is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Utah
Posts: 210
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Rob, thanks for the explanation and the video.
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Jon
2019 12iS SLSA
Salt Lake Int'l
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  #10  
Old 09-26-2021, 02:02 PM
rv9builder rv9builder is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 946
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Rob and PEB,

Did you contact Van's about this? If so, what were their thoughts or suggestions?
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Mark
RV-12iS Fuselage
RV-9A Project: Sold

VAF donation made for 2021
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