What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Safety, Close Traffic

M

Mark C.

Well Known Member
While building my 9A I like to stay current by flying once a week. I fly out of the Chicago Area, DPA Class D. There isnt a time I go out and not have visual traffic in close proximity. On Friday 11/26 I took my wife up we were 10 miles out from DPA when all of the sudden my wife yelled "what the &%$#". It was a small twin coming right at us, and I didnt even see him until he was right on top of us... He pulled up to the left, I decended with a left turn... Way to close..

My question, just looking for opinions, does the Zaon XRX work?? I need something for these short in traffic flights, also hoping to incorporate in my 9A instrumentation planning on going with Dynon Products.

Thanks, Mark C.
 
I had a similar experience during my phase I.

I bought a Zaon and have never regretted one cent I paid for it.

It is not perfect but it works amazingly well considering how it works....understand its limitations, don't use it for your sole means of traffic avoidance and it will show you airplanes that you never knew were there!
 
Yes, but I never considered Flight Following for short in the area flying. Maybe this should be part of my local planning. Mark C.
 
Works for Me

There?s a MRX on my glare shield in my RV7A and a XRX on a friends RV8A that I fly. They work great and I do like the XRX the best because it tells you the direction they are coming from. Go to Zaon website and read about the different in the two units. I think they are will worth the money. Would upgrade to the XRX in my 7A but I?m waiting for Avmaps new INCAS.

Squeak
RV7A
 
I have the XRX, and wouldn't fly without it. May very well have saved the bacon when a Mooney slowly overtook me at my same altitude, I pulled up when he got to about .2 miles, and he went by totally oblivious to my presence.

Another time I was nipping the corner of the outlaw MOA, and with the XRX I could see that I was being intercepted by some jet jockey. One mile, -600 ft, half mile -300 ft, .1 mile at my altitude. Did some 60 degree banks and he stayed right on my tail. AS I departed the MOA I could see him falling back and descending. Not dangerous, but he must have wondered how I knew he was there.

Another plus is that the XRX reports squawk code and encoder altitude to verify transponder is working. The system requires interrogation to function, but I find that with all the airline traffic at high altitude, you are getting blipped almost everwhere.

Roger
 
As most of my flights are within the local Bravo lateral area...I'm very fond of TIS in the rentals I fly right now. (where there is coverage)
 
I have an MRX on the glare-shield and love it!

Last week I installed a Trig mode S transponder. Now I have traffic on my 495 screen and my airplane is 3 lbs. lighter. The 2 great things about the TIS is, it shows you where the traffic is and what direction it is going. The negative thing is that it only works where there is mode S coverage.

However, the Trig is also ADS-B compatible. Good things for the future.
 
Rob, great question the twin made the turn first to his left.. I made the left desending turn just as a reaction.. It happens so fast.
 
Comparison

Any one use both the Xaon and the Monroy? I like the foot print of the Monroy the best with the outside antenna not blocking the view. Bottom line does one work better than the other? Going to get one or the other, my old eyes need all the help they can get.:eek:
 
I started with TIS which was great and made me realize how many traffic usually is around us and we go totally oblivious of them. But it is rather limited to busy area, so after a close call (not as bad as yours) my wife insisted on buying the Zaon and how could I argue against that. We really love our Zaon XRX and often compare it to TIS to get the accuracy of the target. Needless to say, there are times that Zaon picks up traffic that TIS doesn't but it does not happen often.
 
Mark C. said:
Rob, great question the twin made the turn first to his left.. I made the left desending turn just as a reaction.. It happens so fast.
Click to expand...
I know exactly what you mean. Clearly you had time to react, and that's a good thing. I've been in similar situations, and done the same thing. Something i've learned since, that you might keep in mind for next time, if the distance between you and the other plane is even closer before you see it: Pull or push, but don't turn.

The reason: If you consider the profile that an airplane has when you're flying towards it head-on (or side-on, for that matter), it's essentially a long, horizontal rectangle. You, likewise, are flying a long horizontal rectangle. The quickest way to ensure that these rectangles won't hit, when approaching one another, is to change altitude... A very small change in altitude will result in the two rectangles clearing one another.

In contrast, imagine what happens if both planes turn 45 degrees. Now you have two long rectangles, that could meet in a "cross", anywhere along their lengths. Now the planes have to move a much longer distance to clear one another... Instead of clearing off the short axis of the rectangle, you now have to clear the long axis of the rectangle.

That explanation convinced me that pulling or pushing is a quicker way to ensure clearance. How to decide whether to pull or push, does remain a problem. :)
 
1Oldguy said:
Any one use both the Xaon and the Monroy? I like the foot print of the Monroy the best with the outside antenna not blocking the view. Bottom line does one work better than the other? Going to get one or the other, my old eyes need all the help they can get.:eek:
Click to expand...

What made my decision between the Zaon and the Monroy is that the Zaon gives distance to the tenth of a mile, so you can see more quickly if the traffic is getting closer or farther away.
 
Love the Zaon

Just putting in my .02 worth on the question. I agree with the others posting. I have had my XRX for 2.5 years. It has proven its worth many times over. Well worth it to me.
 
As Per the FAR's

Sec. 91.113 ? Right-of-way rules: Except water operations.

(e) Approaching head-on. When aircraft are approaching each other head-on, or nearly so, each pilot of each aircraft shall alter course to the right.
 
This is true, BUT.......

Tonard Bales said:
Sec. 91.113 ? Right-of-way rules: Except water operations.
(e) Approaching head-on. When aircraft are approaching each other head-on, or nearly so, each pilot of each aircraft shall alter course to the right.
Click to expand...

Final decision must include many factors. i.e. You may NOT be directly head-on. If you are slightly left then a right turn would be more dangerous. Only the PIC can make that decision and it must be made instantly.
 
I've been thinking about the devices mentioned here but so far am relying on old fashioned eye ball scanning to keep from running into a bird or another airplane. I've developed a technique of gently rolling back and forth the keep the perspective from becoming too static.

That being said, I am still thinking an electronic scanner of sorts might be worth having - but only if it has to be easy enough to look at without spending a lot time inside the airplane. For sure it will not flag out a turkey buzzard, a flock of geese, or an airplane with no transponder.

I still like the concept of scanning the sky for the enemy - if there isn't anything to be seen, there isn't anything to run into. It generally works quite well.
 
Perspective

As with any comparison between products, it boils down to personal preferences, tradition, and promoting your own choice in a hurry!

From my personal perspective (only!), the primary differences between the ATD-300+ and XRX appear to be:

Monroy ATD-300+: Remote antenna, smaller cockpit footprint, yellow-on-black display, and direct altitude display (the XRX drops the last zero off the altitude)

Zaon XRX: More self-contained/portable, displays the top three intruders (the ATD-300+ shows only the nearest intruder), and black-on-gray display.

Of course, there are other differences including price that probably stand-out to a greater or lesser degree than the above depending on your personal point of view.

Bottom Line: They are both good units, and it?s far better to have one, or the other, or TIS rather than none!

For installation reasons, I selected the ATD-300+.

Good Luck!

Bill Palmer :)
 
Snowflake said:
That explanation convinced me that pulling or pushing is a quicker way to ensure clearance. How to decide whether to pull or push, does remain a problem. :)
Click to expand...

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this--I had a good friend and flying buddy killed in a midair about 15 years ago, in an airplane that I had flown many times.

Most of us, when startled or panicked, tend to pull or climb. Because of this, I mentally rehearse diving if I see another airplane close. In the rv, this has the additional advantage of letting me maintain visual contact. In my friend's case, he descended head on into another airplane climbing out from an airport. Both pilots rolled at the last second, but too late. A hard push or pull might have been enough.

I have an MRX, and if I can't see a target, i will usually descend a few hundred feet until I'm clearly past it.

Birds (large turkey buzzards are common in my part of the world) always dive when startled. I pull if a bird startles me.
 
Just as a follow-up went with the Zaon XRX, they now offer an upgraded version XRX-0-A "ONYX" with software update 2.1. The folks at SteinAir have a great price on it, ask for Paul.. Mark C.
 
MRX as a minimum

I bought an MRX at Sun-N-Fun in 2008 and have never regretted it for a moment. I fly a lot close to both the DFW and the Chicago Class Bs and work hard to keep eyeballs out of the cockpit plus use radar services when available. Even with all that the MRX gives me notice of traffic well before I se it or ATC tells me about it.

While I would prefer to have a system that gave me a direction to the traffic or have it show on my 496, there are other things I can do to reduce risk when I cannot see the traffic and the MRX is telling me it is close and at or near my altitude. Someone earlier said change altitude, which is smart. But also if the distance to target is decreasing and I cannot spot the traffic visually I'll make a 30 degree turn either right or left and see if the closure rate increases or decreases. If it increases I go 30 to 45 back the other way and know which way to look for the traffic.

Sometimes I could not figure it out and just did a steep 90 degree turn hoping my wings would enable the other pilot to see and avoid me!

In 2010 I did about 80 hours of cross country most flying from Texas to Illinois, Iowa, and Minnesota. There is a lot of empty sky out there and sometimes I would fly 3-1/2 or 4 hours without getting a warning from the MRX or seeing another aircraft. Other times I would be over sparsely populated territory 100 miles or more from a major city and there would be traffic at my altitude and within 3 miles.

Bottom line is I do not want to fly without at least the information the MRX offers.

One thing that I learned along the way is I started checking the reported altitude with my altimeter and there was a lot of error. I had the pitot-static system checked and found a leak in the static line. We found and repaired that but still had a large error. I called Zaon and they told me how to adjust the MRX to agree with the calibrated system. Now it will more accurately give me the altitude difference to the target.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top