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  #11  
Old 12-22-2011, 08:16 AM
Alex D Alex D is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 114
Default RV12 LODA BFR??

Mitch I will call you later today and talk about my process with FSDO regarding my RV12 LODA application.

I have a question for John, you mentioned that your LODA is ?to do transition and Biennial Flight Review training in my ELSA RV12?. Are you sure that you have a waiver that covers BFR under the LODA? I have 4 LODA?s for my RV6 (sold) RV7, RV7A, RV10 and soon a RV12 and none let you give BFR or high performance endorsements for compensation. It is only like Pierre said ?permitting CFI's with an experimental, to rent their airplane and give dual in it, ONLY to other already licensed pilots?
I have a call to my FSDO to find out if BFR are allowed on the my future ELSA RV12. John, it will be great if you were the first one to be able to get this changed. All it takes is one to get it started.
Thanks
Alex De Dominicis
www.RVTraining.com
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  #12  
Old 12-22-2011, 08:47 AM
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dmaib dmaib is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
Posts: 1,339
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex D View Post
Mitch I will call you later today and talk about my process with FSDO regarding my RV12 LODA application.

I have a question for John, you mentioned that your LODA is “to do transition and Biennial Flight Review training in my ELSA RV12”. Are you sure that you have a waiver that covers BFR under the LODA? I have 4 LODA’s for my RV6 (sold) RV7, RV7A, RV10 and soon a RV12 and none let you give BFR or high performance endorsements for compensation. It is only like Pierre said “permitting CFI's with an experimental, to rent their airplane and give dual in it, ONLY to other already licensed pilots”
I have a call to my FSDO to find out if BFR are allowed on the my future ELSA RV12. John, it will be great if you were the first one to be able to get this changed. All it takes is one to get it started.
Thanks
Alex De Dominicis
www.RVTraining.com
My LODA is very clear, as Alex notes, I cannot give Flight Reviews or High Performance endorsements. Transition Training only. I would be very interested to know if your LODA allows other training.
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David Maib
RV-10 N380DM
New Smyrna Beach, FL
VAF Paid 1/21/2021

"In '69 I was 21, and I called the road my own"
Jackson Browne






Last edited by dmaib : 12-22-2011 at 08:49 AM.
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  #13  
Old 12-22-2011, 09:34 PM
MLock MLock is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 301
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Thanks to everyone for your input. I certainly have learned allot. I will keep this thread going with the updates to my LODA process. With the help of those of you who have paved the way, I'm sure I can get this done in due time.
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President Van's Aircraft
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  #14  
Old 12-23-2011, 03:50 AM
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NickAir NickAir is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: McMinnville, Oregon: HOME of the SPRUCE GOOSE
Posts: 540
Default

I also was involved in this 6 years ago with the FSDO regarding my experimental LODA application and LODA received, specific to the aircraft.

I will confirm Pierre's statement, “permitting CFI's with an experimental, to rent their airplane and give dual in it, ONLY to other already licensed pilots”

Pierre's above statement is the same experience I had with a LODA.
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Working on a RV-4
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Last edited by NickAir : 12-23-2011 at 03:55 AM. Reason: more added
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  #15  
Old 12-23-2011, 05:33 AM
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pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,885
Default Recap

For all you newcomers, the EAA, NTSB and EAA all met around ten years ago to "do something about all these first flight wrecks" as airplanes became faster and quicker in response, with lighter controls.

Short story is that the EAA was to administer the program and permit CFI's with the type of airplanes they owned, to give transition training and be allowed to do so for pay. The results paid off handsomely with a marked reduction in first flight accidents and fatalities.

The paperwork consisted of ONE SHEET of paper and was issued virtually overnight! Only the basic, necessary information was required..name, licenses and their numbers, medical cert and airplane N number and your address....all faxed back 'n forth.

After 5 years, the FAA took the program over and now the paperwork and bull is so burdensome that some of us, me included, simply gave up because the bureacratic bull simply isn't worth it any more.

When I asked an FAA rep what had happened to the paperwork reduction act, he said that they were working on it. Yeah...right.

Best,
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46 years ag pilot/CFI
Air Tractor 502/PT-6
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  #16  
Old 12-29-2011, 07:02 AM
Alex D Alex D is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 114
Default Biennial Flight Review with LODA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetguy View Post
I sent Mitch an email about the process. Since there have been several mishaps, 6 as I recall, with New pilots and their RV12s we thought we would lead the way in being the first to get a LODA or Letter of Deviation from the FAA to do transition and Biennial Flight Review training in my ELSA RV12. IMHO because the RV12 is much easier to build we are seeing more sales than any other ELSA kit. Over 650 serial numbers have been issued so far. Lots of these sales are to people who are building all by themselves with out getting any help from more experienced builders and they are doing their own first flights with little or no experience in experimental airplanes. This could lead to more mishaps on the RV12. Most Insurance company's require 5 hours in an experimental airplane. Now those builders in the lower 48 can get that training here in North Texas if they so desire. Even though the RV12 is very easy to fly it can still be a little tricky. Add to the equation highly integrated avionics that can cause distraction in the cockpit and you can get the picture. Pilots who haven't flown in several years or who have very low flight hours like a new Sport pilot need to get some training before their first flight in their RV12.
I just found out yesterday that my future RV12 LODA will NOT allow for Biennial Flight Review training in ELSA RV12 for hire. Just wondering how were you able to get around that?
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  #17  
Old 12-29-2011, 10:55 AM
DanWright DanWright is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ridgecrest, CA
Posts: 126
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Does the term CFI apply to LSA Instructors when it comes to transition training/LODAs?
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Building RV-12 #511 in the Mojave desert (1976W reserved)
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  #18  
Old 12-30-2011, 12:36 PM
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dmaib dmaib is offline
 
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Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
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I don't know, but I would imagine the FAA would issue a LODA to an LSA Instructor.
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RV-10 N380DM
New Smyrna Beach, FL
VAF Paid 1/21/2021

"In '69 I was 21, and I called the road my own"
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  #19  
Old 12-09-2012, 08:56 AM
humptybump humptybump is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,180
Default What activities can the CFI with a LODA perform ?

This thread and a new one listing CFI's with LODA for various aircraft wants me to ask a question of the CFI's here who have a Letter of Deviation Authority.


Can a CFI, holding the Letter of Deviation Authority for their airplane, provide training other than initial transition training ? Specifically, can the CFI perform a biennial in their airplane ?


Searches here and elsewhere have not provided a definitive answer but it appears that biennials are covered.

I ask because I prefer to gain additional experiences while completing my biennial. Getting additional training in other RV's is a positive goal for me.

Mitch: did you ever get the LODA for your RV-12 ?

Last edited by humptybump : 12-09-2012 at 09:01 AM.
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  #20  
Old 12-09-2012, 06:16 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 7,148
Default

I think you are going to get different answers, depending on the FSDO that issued the LODA.
I have a LODA from the Oakland, CA FSDO for my -10. I am restricted to transition training, only. Even if we do all the things which would normally be done in a flight review or High Performance checkout I may not sign these off if done in my airplane. Further, the pilot receiving training must have a bona fide need for it, e.g., the pilot will be flying a -10. Just wanting the experience is not enough. No "demo" rides allowed. My FSDO's standard is, 'if this training can be done in a normally certified aircraft then I may not do it". So, if a pilot has no CS prop time, he must become proficient at that in a certified airplane before I can give him transition training.

My experience with getting the LODA is that it was straightforward, once I pointed out that this was not new and other FSDOs had issued them. I did get hold of the FAA inspector's book and followed the procedures which are detailed there. I would be happy to email others copies of my application package.

Finally, I believe the current issue is getting insurance to cover instructional operation at a reasonable cost. Unless you are doing a lot of transition training the insurance cost is prohibitive, imho.

Last edited by BobTurner : 12-09-2012 at 06:20 PM.
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