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  #1  
Old 04-20-2021, 10:20 AM
g zero g zero is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: palm coast fl.
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Default N Number Font

If a N Number is painted on a plane and the font doesn’t meet FAA regulations does it need to be removed or can the proper font N Number be applied in another location ?
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  #2  
Old 04-20-2021, 11:31 AM
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jrock836 jrock836 is offline
 
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FAR part 45 says you have to have registration numbers on your plane that meet the requirements. It doesn't specifically address having one set meeting the requirements and one set that does not. Just my opinion, but I think you could leave the other set of markings in place.


https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...45_main_02.tpl
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  #3  
Old 04-20-2021, 12:56 PM
JDeanda JDeanda is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ventura, CA
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Default Those Numbers

I had a recently deceased buddy that loved British aeroplanes. His Gipsy Moths and Tiger Moth all display their original British G numbers, full size, on the fuselage and wings. Current N numbers are ‘semicorrectly’ on the fuselages, 2” tall, under the stabilizers. Nobody has ever said anything. I’m pretty sure that if the correct number, in the correct font, in the correct location is displayed, you’ve met the marking requirement, and the ‘wrong’ numbers do not negate that.
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  #4  
Old 04-20-2021, 03:36 PM
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RV7Guy RV7Guy is offline
 
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Location: Chandler, AZ
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Default Intent

The intent of the reg is to insure the numbers can be read. If your numbers are within reason and can be clearly read, don't be concerned.

As an example, someone could paint letters that are the exact size required but paint them in a color that makes them nearly invisible like Black on dark gray.
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  #5  
Old 04-20-2021, 04:02 PM
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Chattin35 Chattin35 is offline
 
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Default Crossing the ADIZ

What font is painter's tape?

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  #6  
Old 04-21-2021, 07:08 AM
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AcroSmoke AcroSmoke is offline
 
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I get a lot of interesting comments when people see the registration number on my plane. Everything from, “Way cool” to, “you better hope the FAA doesn’t see that.” I get a chuckle out of the later one. I think that this is one area of homebuilding that the feds don’t make a huge deal about unless there is way too much artistic license taken. Just take note of all the variations of registration numbers on the planes at Oshkosh and you will ask how they got away with that.
Just over a year ago, I had my vinyl-wrapped RV-7 painted at Art Craft Paint in Santa Maria, CA. When I showed them the paint scheme and how I wanted my N number to be, two different colors, they questioned if I could get away with it. “Of course,” I said. “It’s done all the time.” I actually wasn’t sure. I figured that if it was not a legal marking, surely a paint shop would know. Fortunately, I had several weeks before the paint shop was ready to put the red and silver on the plane and I took that time to research what is and isn’t allowed on an “N” number. During that time, I saw the gorgeous RV-10 that was being given away by AOPA with the N number N260MG with the contrasting 0MG. Very cool in my world. By the way, do you ever say, “N number” and get that feeling that you’ve said something redundant like ATM Machine, or VIN Number? I digress.




FAR Part 45 gives all the detail for size and location of the N number including this:
§ 45.21 General.
Except as provided in §45.22, no person may operate a U.S.-registered aircraft unless that aircraft displays nationality and registration marks in accordance with the requirements of this section and §§45.23 through 45.33.
Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may place on any aircraft a design, mark, or symbol that modifies or confuses the nationality and registration marks.
Aircraft nationality and registration marks must—(
Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, be painted on the aircraft or affixed by any other means insuring a similar degree of permanence; (ie: paint or decal)
Have no ornamentation;
Contrast in color with the background; and
Be legible.

For most of us, we can look to the much easier-to-understand Advisory Circular (AC) 45-2E.
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...r/AC_45-2E.pdf
AC 45-2E covers the required markings for aircraft, engines, and propellers including what your ID plate must have on it and where it is placed as well as the EXPERIMENTAL or Light Sport markings. Here is some if the information:

Fixed-wing aircraft
Minimum height: 12 inches (with exceptions such as exhibition, limited or restricted category aircraft).
Location: (1) On both surfaces of a single vertical tail or on the outer surfaces of a multi-vertical tail, or (2) On the fuselage surfaces, on both sides of the fuselage between the trailing edge of the wing and the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer. If engine pods or other equipment are located in this area and are an integral part of the fuselage side surfaces, you may place the marks on those pods or equipment.
Orientation: Horizontal

Experimental aircraft
Minimum Height: Exhibition, amateur-built, and light-sport aircraft with a maximum cruising speed of 180 knots or less 3 inches (with exceptions as shown in Table 3).
Location: (1) On both sides of the fuselage between the trailing edge of the wing and the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer, or (2) On both sides of the vertical tail surface.
Orientation: Horizontal (with exceptions as shown in Table 3)

These are just two of the several aircraft types or categories AC 45-2E covers, and they're also examples of exceptions from the rules including this last item in the table:
Displaying an N-number on an aircraft, but not as specified in this AC. You may ask the FAA for authority to display the number in some other way. Contact your local FSDO or MIDO for assistance.
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  #7  
Old 04-21-2021, 07:30 AM
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mburch mburch is offline
 
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I know personally of an occasion where an RV was flagged by a passing FAA inspector for having an N-number font that was deemed "too thin". As I recall they were forced to apply new vinyl digits on top of the old ones - same height, just a different font.
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  #8  
Old 04-21-2021, 09:42 AM
SantosDumont SantosDumont is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Henderson, NV
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It really depends on if a ASI is having a bad day of not. I flew into HHR one time in my Mooney which had a somewhat pretentious paint scheme (it has flames on the nose). An ASI yellow tagged it because "the lettering was out of spec".

The N number was in a cursive-y font but clearly legible and had been that way for 20 years.

When I called the FSDO and left a message for the supervisor to please give me a temp moving permit so I could get out of his territory and back to Vegas, the ASI returned my call and told me to just tear up the yellow tag and forget it happened.

I keep meaning to get that yellow tag framed.
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  #9  
Old 04-21-2021, 11:54 AM
RV10Man RV10Man is offline
 
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Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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Default

I have mine done in electrical tape at the moment.
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  #10  
Old 04-21-2021, 01:49 PM
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jnorris jnorris is offline
 
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Location: Oshkosh
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDeanda View Post
I had a recently deceased buddy that loved British aeroplanes. His Gipsy Moths and Tiger Moth all display their original British G numbers, full size, on the fuselage and wings. Current N numbers are ‘semicorrectly’ on the fuselages, 2” tall, under the stabilizers. Nobody has ever said anything.
Interesting. What you describe is a direct violation of 14 CFR Part 45, which states in pertinent part (my emphasis added):

§ 45.21 General.
Except as provided in §45.22, no person may operate a U.S.-registered aircraft unless that aircraft displays nationality and registration marks in accordance with the requirements of this section and §§45.23 through 45.33.
Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may place on any aircraft a design, mark, or symbol that modifies or confuses the nationality and registration marks.


Does your friend have specific approval for the UK registration marks? If not, he is in danger of being cited. Just because "nobody has ever said anything" doesn't mean that someone might not in the future.

Having said that, I have seen A BUNCH of aircraft flying around that have N numbers displayed that don't even come close to meeting Part 45. And like you say, "nobody ever says anything". Apparently it's not high on the FAA's list of enforcement actions.

But that doesn't mean you can't get cited, so be aware.

And to answer the original poster's question, it would not be a problem to have the "non-standard" N numbers along with the ones that meet the regulation. So long as you've got one legal set, you're in business.
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