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  #11  
Old 03-29-2021, 08:26 PM
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PaulvS PaulvS is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 567
Default Stall speed

It is probably just a typo in the NTSB report that indicates a Vans stall speed of 58 knots, it is actually 58 mph on the Vans website. It would also be more informative and relevant, for the safety message, to report the stall speed at various angles of bank.

In any case this accident resulted in a sad and apparently avoidable loss, the best we can do now is hopefully learn from it.
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Last edited by PaulvS : 03-29-2021 at 08:53 PM. Reason: ntsb not faa
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  #12  
Old 03-29-2021, 08:29 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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That 77 knots was a ground speed on downwind, meaning the IAS was likely lower.
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  #13  
Old 03-30-2021, 05:46 AM
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rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulvS View Post
...

In any case this accident resulted in a sad and apparently avoidable loss, the best we can do now is hopefully learn from it.
True - I confess I have found myself a bit slow in the pattern from time to time, and I can see how this can happen, particularly when a distraction pops up.

I have not yet gotten so slow that I got the "angle-angle-push" warning or the beeps, but slower than I wanted because I was not paying close enough attention.

This accident is another sad reminder that we need to bring our best selves to every flight.
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  #14  
Old 03-30-2021, 06:03 AM
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Everybody go to 5500 or so this weekend, slow to typical approach speed, drop the flaps, cut power, roll in, and pull for an approximation of a tight base to
final. Now do it again with 5 less knots, then again with 10 less, if you can.

Why? See Richard McSpadden's column in the April AOPA Pilot. Ed Wischmeyer's E3 concept is well worth considering.
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  #15  
Old 03-30-2021, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv8ch View Post
True - I confess I have found myself a bit slow in the pattern from time to time, and I can see how this can happen, particularly when a distraction pops up.

I have not yet gotten so slow that I got the "angle-angle-push" warning or the beeps, but slower than I wanted because I was not paying close enough attention.

This accident is another sad reminder that we need to bring our best selves to every flight.
4th or 5th landing I made with my RV...I got "angle-angle-push" on a 75-knot base-to-final turn that I overshot a bit, and subsequently made too tight and too low. In 50 years, it's the first time I've ever had a stall warning on approach and it scared the **** out of me. It didn't scare me as much at the time as it did afterward when I'd had time to process the implications.
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  #16  
Old 03-30-2021, 07:47 AM
sam@riddlehill.com sam@riddlehill.com is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Malden, MO
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Default E3

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Everybody go to 5500 or so this weekend, slow to typical approach speed, drop the flaps, cut power, roll in, and pull for an approximation of a tight base to
final. Now do it again with 5 less knots, then again with 10 less, if you can.

Why? See Richard McSpadden's column in the April AOPA Pilot. Ed Wischmeyer's E3 concept is well worth considering.

Yep, good reads. Here’s the links....

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...t-loss-control

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/...s-from-tragedy
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  #17  
Old 03-30-2021, 07:51 AM
sailvi767 sailvi767 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCool View Post
4th or 5th landing I made with my RV...I got "angle-angle-push" on a 75-knot base-to-final turn that I overshot a bit, and subsequently made too tight and too low. In 50 years, it's the first time I've ever had a stall warning on approach and it scared the **** out of me. It didn't scare me as much at the time as it did afterward when I'd had time to process the implications.
Here is a thread I started about a similar experience to what you had.

https://vansairforce.net/community/s....php?p=1402085
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  #18  
Old 03-30-2021, 08:01 AM
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ronschreck ronschreck is offline
 
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Default Shouldn't happen...

This type of accident is entirely avoidable. Anyone with training in upset recovery or basic aerobatics can recognize the onset of a stall and make the appropriate control inputs to regain normal flight. Absent such training the natural response to a stall is to pull back on the stick and fly deeper into the stall. Please, please, please get some training in aerobatics or stall/spin avoidance. You might even enjoy the training and one day become one of the very few RV pilots who enjoy aerobatic competition!
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  #19  
Old 03-30-2021, 09:12 AM
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chrispratt chrispratt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Everybody go to 5500 or so this weekend, slow to typical approach speed, drop the flaps, cut power, roll in, and pull for an approximation of a tight base to
final. Now do it again with 5 less knots, then again with 10 less, if you can.

Why? See Richard McSpadden's column in the April AOPA Pilot. Ed Wischmeyer's E3 concept is well worth considering.
On my BFR review (technically it's just FR now) last week, my instructor talked me through something similar to what Dan is suggesting. I slowed the RV-8 down to pattern speed, started a left turn base-to-final, pulled up the nose a bit to tighten the turn, then stepped on left rudder. The -8 immediately shook and started to enter a spin. I didn't need any prompting to recover . Try it (at altitude of course). If you are nervous about it, take along a qualified instructor. Afterwards, buy him lunch.

Chris
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  #20  
Old 03-30-2021, 09:34 AM
danny danny is offline
 
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Location: puyallup, wa
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Just an FYI, I've been in there a few times and I'm betting he was over some pretty tall trees giving him very little squiggle room. Unfortunately it is a challenging strip and the locals have lots of stories.
Very sorry for the loss of your friend. Best wishes for his wife.
danny

Just saw it happened in 2019. No wonder I couldn't find it in local news. Doh!

Last edited by danny : 03-30-2021 at 09:47 AM.
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