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  #41  
Old 09-10-2013, 09:36 PM
NASA515 NASA515 is offline
 
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Location: Hansville, Washington
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[quote=BobTurner;806140]Doug,
I believe that once you have had a medical denied you may no longer self-certify for Sport pilot privleges.

Part of this sentiment:

It does seem at times that criminals get away with things while honest people pay for their honesty. /QUOTE]

I find this comment EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE, to put it VERY mildly.

Is the writer suggesting that those of us exercising the privileges of Sport Pilot are criminals? Dodging the consequences of "honest people" who go to the AME?

We all have this challenge facing us. I have a lot of pilot friends in their 80s, some in their 90s - one reached 100 and was still active - owning two airplanes. But most got the word from their AME's, or the dreaded letter from the FAA. Fact is, we're all - if we stay in this business long enough - are gonna get "that letter." The clock ticks - Tempus Fugit.

I've been flying for 49 years - J-3s to Big Iron. If I had my druthers, I'd probably go for a bigger, faster airplane. Heck - if I win the Lottery, I'd go for a Cessna Citation. But - I don't. Have my druthers, that is.

Knowing there was a "Letter" in my future some day, I elected not to play Russian Roulette and raise my anxiety level and blood pressure dreading that trip to the AME. So, I went Light Sport.

Thank Goodness that option is now available to us. I built and am flying an RV-12. And loving it. It's a fine airplane, and I use it for a lot of cross-country flying. It's way better than a powered parachute.

But - as we all know - you have to take that road BEFORE, and not AFTER, the inevitable bad news arrives at our doorstep. I have a lot of RV-12 friends, and they have all arrived at, and taken that path. We believe we are safe pilots.

We are not dodging or gaming the system. And WE ARE NOT CRIMINALS.....

Bob Bogash
RV-12
N737G
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  #42  
Old 09-10-2013, 10:10 PM
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rv7boy rv7boy is offline
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You misunderstood the point he was making. I didn't take his post as saying older pilots who fly LSA are criminals. If you'll read the thread about the pilot who knows another pilot who has continued to fly after a heart attack, I think you'll have a different viewpoint.
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RV-7 Wings
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  #43  
Old 09-10-2013, 10:31 PM
DaAV8R DaAV8R is offline
 
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Location: Lee's Summit, MO
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Default Take your time

Bob,

There are many here, including me, that have not met you. Regardless, know that we are wishing the very best for you. It was a long road getting to where you are now, don't make any quick decisions. Think it over and take your time. There isn't any hurry.
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  #44  
Old 09-11-2013, 12:38 AM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Bob B, I am sorry you misunderstood my post. It was a bit confusing because my comment to Doug, about LSA eligibilty, ended up four posts later because of submissions while I was typing. But I have to wonder if you read it all. Don H understood my intent. The OP could have hid his condition and continued to fly his RV-7, illegally, as others have (I gave an example of this behavior and called it criminal, which it is); and thus feels punished for his honesty. There is nothing illegal or criminal in flying without a medical under LSA rules. In point of fact, I hope that, based on LSA and glider statistics, the FAA will some day find the courage to stand up to the AMA and do away with all non commercial medicals.
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  #45  
Old 09-11-2013, 06:25 AM
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Dgamble Dgamble is offline
 
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Bob -

I followed your build for a number of years, rooting for you during each of the many setbacks you endured. I couldn't have been happier for you on the day of your first flight and the news of your grounding was like a punch in the gut.

You are, to put it succinctly, living my nightmare.

I know that there is only minimal equivalence in moving to something like a powered parachute, those being incapable of the long distance trips you had envisioned. "Flying is flying" is warm beer and cold comfort - the appeal of an RV is so much more than just flying. There is a huge social factor to be considered as well. And having to sell the airplane that you devoted so much to in terms of cost and time has got to be excruciating.

I join in those who feel terribly about this.

I'm hesitant to dilute the above message of empathy, but I have a quibble with this statement which strikes me as somewhat unfair:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LettersFromFlyoverCountry View Post
The FAA's job is to keep as many people out of the sky as they can.
I couldn't disagree more. I know it must feel that way to you right now and I can completely understand your frustration, but the FAA's concern is not for your personal health and well-being, it is for those who may fly with you or those on the ground that could be hurt if your abilities failed in flight. At least that has been my experience, anyway.

I hope that you can eventually find a way to work within the system and get re-approved just long enough to go LSA. An RV-12 is as close to your RV-7 as you can get and I think you would enjoy the build. It doesn't travel as fast as a 7, but it can travel.
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  #46  
Old 09-11-2013, 08:00 AM
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LettersFromFlyoverCountry LettersFromFlyoverCountry is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dgamble View Post
I couldn't disagree more. I know it must feel that way to you right now and I can completely understand your frustration, but the FAA's concern is not for your personal health and well-being, it is for those who may fly with you or those on the ground that could be hurt if your abilities failed in flight. At least that has been my experience, anyway.
I don't mean to question the integrity of the FAA; clearly theirs is a noble effort to protect other people.

When the FAA denies a medical. They cite a (b) and also a (c) in FAR 67.113, 67.213, and 67.313.

I would submit that item #2 under the (c) heading allows for much too broad an interpretation:

(2) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.

Because I had Meniere's Disease? Well, OK, but I had Meniere's Disease several years ago when the FAA investigated it and gave me the certificate anyway with the provision that if the symptoms reoccur, I don't fly. I think that's fair and, hence, that's what I did.

It was entirely predictable several years ago that those symptoms would reoccur because that's how Meniere's Disease works. There are various treatments, but there is no cure.

So I don't quite understand what's changed. Well, except for the fact there's another person in charge in OKC now and two guys have different definitions of what's "reasonable," and in our current world, we want to eliminate as many "possibilities" as possible by forcing people to the ground. I get that. And they clearly have the right and reason to apply it.
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Last edited by LettersFromFlyoverCountry : 09-11-2013 at 08:12 AM.
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  #47  
Old 09-11-2013, 08:13 AM
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tkatc tkatc is offline
 
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Looks like you've slept on it and are ready to make an argument! I like that!







Quote:
Originally Posted by LettersFromFlyoverCountry View Post
I don't mean to question the integrity of the FAA; clearly theirs is a noble effort to protect other people.

When the FAA denies a medical. They cite a (b) and also a (c) in FAR 67.113, 67.213, and 67.313.

I would submit that item #2 under the (c) heading allows for much too broad an interpretation:

(2) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.

Because I had Meniere's Disease? Well, OK, but I had Meniere's Disease several years ago when the FAA investigated it and gave me the certificate anyway with the provision that if the symptoms reoccur, I don't fly. I think that's fair and, hence, that's what I did.

It was entirely predictable several years ago that those symptoms would reoccur because that's how Meniere's Disease works. There are various treatments, but there is no cure.

So I don't quite understand what's changed. Well, except for the fact there's another person in charge in OKC now and two guys have different definitions of what's "reasonable," and in our current world, we want to eliminate as many "possibilities" as possible by forcing people to the ground. I get that. And they clearly have the right and reason to apply it.
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  #48  
Old 09-11-2013, 08:46 AM
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LettersFromFlyoverCountry LettersFromFlyoverCountry is offline
 
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Well, I don't think the realities of the situation are any different to me today than they were yesterday. I do have to give a shoutout to Tom Charpentier, the EAA Government Advocacy Specialist, who was kind enough to send me an email offering to help.

At this point, I don't know what the next step is because the FAA is so sly in giving specific reasoning.

I don't want to waste anyone's time but clause (c) still says to me, "don't waste your time."

But Tom, who was cc'ing EAA's med specialist makes some intriguing points:

Quote:
Bear in mind that a denial letter doesn’t necessarily mean that there will never be a chance of certification with a given condition. It means that given the information you provided at this point in time they determined that you are ineligible. Given the right circumstances you may be eligible for a special issuance, which is essentially a waiver for a condition that may otherwise be disqualifying.

I’m not really familiar with how the FAA handles Meniett devices, but that could well be the problem as you suggest. The fact that your symptoms were most recently manifested in June may also be a problem as that may not be enough time for the FAA to establish that your symptoms have an acceptably low chance of coming back (when you submitted the paperwork in August only 2 months had elapsed).
(add) So I don't want to suggest that I was wrongly removed from the flying population. For now, it just kind of is what it is. They probably made the correct decision.
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N612EF Builder log (EAA Builder log)
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Last edited by LettersFromFlyoverCountry : 09-11-2013 at 09:48 AM.
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  #49  
Old 09-11-2013, 08:53 AM
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Last night I got to thinking about this and started to get angry. Not just angry for the OP but for everyone who can fly but has been disqualified by the FAA for some reason.

The FAA proposed regulations, based on data, that a valid drivers license and self-certification is enough to assure the same level of safety (or better) than we have with the current AME medical certification process. The FAA received a record number of public comments and the response was over-whelmingly favorable.

The only valid response by the FAA would be to move the regulations forward. Instead, the FAA said they're not a priority.

I have to ask, not a priority to who? They sure as all get out are a priority to the flying population, or the formerly flying population. They're apparently not a priority to the FAA.

Now I harken back to my school days - from elementary school all the way through undergraduate school. Every lesson I had in American Government included the notion that we are a government of the people. If that's true then the FAA needs to act because the people have spoken.

I think it's time we start a letter writing campaign to our senators and congressmen to light a fire under the FAA to move this process forward. Every letter should be copied to the FAA. I also think the EAA and the AOPA need to turn the heat up too. With a concerted effort, I believe we can make this happen because:

-Its supported by the people
-Its supported by data
-It reduces FAA costs (no more or at least fewer 3rd class medicals)
-and it embodies the American form of government.

There are probably more good reasons but these are what will go in my letter. I don't plan to stop writing and pushing until this new regulation is adopted. I encouraged everyone to write a letter, not just an email, but a letter you mail to your representative. And if you happen to know anyone in congress on a personal level, give them a call.

The FAA can be moved with a big enough lever.
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  #50  
Old 09-11-2013, 08:54 AM
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RV7Guy RV7Guy is offline
 
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Default Keep fighting!!!!

Let these people work for you. Since you got a Cert once it will aid in the fight.

DO NOT SELL THE PLANE. Look at this as a temporary set back. You'll succeed.
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