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  #11  
Old 05-19-2021, 11:10 AM
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Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
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[quote=SkyDreams09;1526751]You are correct, even a small 30-50lb increase changes it for me. Especially with the 4-gallon unusable fuel./QUOTE]

RV-12 fuel tank is usable to last drop. You might be referring to 4 gallons minimum for takeoff...
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Jim Stricker - EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC N86203
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub N6841H
Bought Flying RV-12 #120058 Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 690

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  #12  
Old 05-19-2021, 11:15 AM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDreams09 View Post
You are correct, even a small 30-50lb increase changes it for me. Especially with the 4-gallon unusable fuel.

one of my big questions is what will be the resale value of 1320# gross weight aircraft when 2000# plus LSA are available? Is there still a market? It has to have an impact.
Just to clarify, the RV-12 doesn't have 4 gallons of unusable fuel.

I have personally landed with 2.5 gallons remaining. The tank can actual be run nearly dry in flight if a situation occurred that someone accidently ended up using all of the required 30 minute VFR reserve.

The 4 gallon minimum is a limitation on taking off.
It is also recommended that no long term extended steep climb be executed with less than 4 gallons on board.
Shallower cruise climb pitch angles and any other coordinated maneuvers that would be used in normal flight modes are not an issue.
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  #13  
Old 05-19-2021, 12:08 PM
SkyDreams09 SkyDreams09 is offline
 
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Wouldn't the concern for a go-around be equivalent to a take-off? Where I trained for the RV-12 puts a hard-line on leaving 4 gallons plus in the tank to avoid that exact scenario.
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  #14  
Old 05-19-2021, 12:22 PM
SkyDreams09 SkyDreams09 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Chambersburg
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Leave it to the government and the FAA to botch something good. They could seriously screw up a wet dream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyLucas View Post
You may want to read this recent article: "Spring 2021 Update on FAAís Proposed New Regulation for Light-Sport Aircraft & Light Personal Aircraft"

https://bydanjohnson.com/spring-2021...onal-aircraft/

LSA may not change as much as we hoped.
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  #15  
Old 05-19-2021, 12:31 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDreams09 View Post
Wouldn't the concern for a go-around be equivalent to a take-off? Where I trained for the RV-12 puts a hard-line on leaving 4 gallons plus in the tank to avoid that exact scenario.
There is a header chamber (for lack of better description... it acts in the same way a header tank does) in the tank at the fuel pick-up that captures enough fuel at the location of the fuel pick-up to allow an unrestricted climb for a few minutes at a low fuel level. Easily enough to execute a go around and climb back to pattern altitude.
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  #16  
Old 05-19-2021, 09:01 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
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Walt,

If you get a new AW certificate you will also get new OLís which may be much more restrictive than hat you have now. For example, my 12 was licensed in March 2012 and my OLís permit IFR in IMC if equipped. My understanding is that guys getting ELSA AWs now do not have the option for IFR in IMC.

Rich
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  #17  
Old 05-19-2021, 09:48 PM
seagull seagull is offline
 
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[quote=RFSchaller;1526935]If you get a new AW certificate you will also get new OLís which may be much more restrictive than hat you have now. For example, my 12 was licensed in March 2012 and my OLís permit IFR in IMC if equipped. My understanding is that guys getting ELSA AWs now do not have the option for IFR in IMC./QUOTE]

I speak from personal experience.
I did an "N" number change on my -12, It started 10/20 but because of COVID the gears moved slowly. It finally got moving 2/21 and is was issued FEB/2021.

In reference to what you speak this is directly from my Special Airworthiness Certificate;

19. Instrument flight operations are authorized if the instruments specified in ß 91.205(d) are installed, operational, compliant with the performance
requirements of, and maintained per the applicable regulations. All maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the aircraft
maintenance records and include the following items: date, work performed, and name and certificate number of person returning aircraft to service.
(49)

There is nothing different in this AW certificate that wasn't in the original AW that was issued in 2015.
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  #18  
Old 05-19-2021, 10:44 PM
seagull seagull is offline
 
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[quote=NinerBikes;1526961]
Quote:
Originally Posted by seagull View Post

He mentions 2012... something might have changed in 2013.
Read Rich's post closer, he talks about "My understanding is that guys getting ELSA AWs now do not have the option for IFR in IMC."

I directly addressed that issue.
My date is 2021, as current as you can get, and I am still allowed to fly in IMC "if equipped".
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Last edited by seagull : 05-19-2021 at 11:15 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-20-2021, 10:06 AM
Amadeus Amadeus is offline
 
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[quote=seagull;1526963]
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post
Read Rich's post closer, he talks about "My understanding is that guys getting ELSA AWs now do not have the option for IFR in IMC."
Pilot decision making is crucial whether flying an LSA, Cessna 150, Diamond DA40, F-22 Raptor, day, night, VMC, IMC, alone or with a passenger. I would NOT take an RV-12iS into IMC weather but it would be nice to get a clearance for passing through some wispy clouds en route without deviation or to even get through a low non-convective cloud layer to VFR on top. Can we, as pilots, not be trusted to make decisions at this level?
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  #20  
Old 05-20-2021, 11:29 AM
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rcarsey rcarsey is offline
 
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[quote=seagull;1526963]
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post

Read Rich's post closer, he talks about "My understanding is that guys getting ELSA AWs now do not have the option for IFR in IMC."

I directly addressed that issue.
My date is 2021, as current as you can get, and I am still allowed to fly in IMC "if equipped".
Well, I just got my E-LSA AW just a few months ago. It contained the standard language that the plane can be operated Night VFR or IFR as long as it has met the equipment requirements in Part 91.205(c) and (d), respectively.

Before flying in IMC, I would remove the placard on the panel that says "flight into IMC prohibited" on the instrument panel, and update the POH.

If you're in an S-LSA aircraft, you can't make those changes.

Flying in IMC without also equipping with pitot heat, alternate static, and two separate attitude gyros/sensors is probably not smart though. If you're talking about a whispy or single, well-defined cloud.. then... ?
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