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Old 08-13-2014, 05:25 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 7,858

Originally Posted by artrose View Post
After reading, I can appreciate the work and effort involved in the production of these documents, yet I have a continuing failure to comprehend much of the reasoning , purpose, or need. I tend to equate this to the two workers who are told to dig a ditch scenerio. One worker, highly educated and methodical, requires a set of blue prints, a spec book, soil samples, and a lot of prep time before he begins work, and the other guy simply jumps in the ditch and starts digging. Both completed the ditch as instructed, and both are now considered competent, professional ditch diggers. We do have the understanding that there is no single path to success? Or do we?
If you were asked to insure the ditch diggers, would you quote the same rate for both?
One future hope is that a well documented training format might lead to lower insurance rates. Some of the "type" clubs have had some success with this.
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Old 08-14-2014, 10:04 AM
artrose artrose is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Antonio area
Posts: 86

I would insure at the same rate. Both are competent and professional. Perhaps a more relevant question might be to ask which ditch digger would you hire. Would you choose the guy who carries the high overhead, or hire the innovative no nonsense other guy. Add enough complexity and weight to the foundation and the building will eventually collapse. I'd suggest it's time to open a dialog with the intent to influence and hopefully change some misguided thought processes, rather than to intensify and further complicate an already overwhelming, complicated, and self consuming system. Over the course of many years we have allowed the unchecked growth of a regulatory system that has literally begun to eat it's own. Additional regulation and complexity in an attempt to satisfy involved parties will not resolve the many issues that have caused the massive decline in General Aviation. Simplification and revision would be a start in the right direction, otherwise, it's over. Ask yourself the question as to why so many have left the Certified ranks and moved to Experimental. The answer should be obvious.
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Old 08-14-2014, 03:53 PM
Vac Vac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Niceville, Florida
Posts: 491


Foremost, my intent sharing this work (which is no different than sharing the details of a build) is not to increase the complexity, regulation or cost of EAB activity; in fact, it’s just the opposite. I am gravely concerned about the future of GA activity and erosion of flying privileges and opportunities in this country. EAB activity is a bright spot, and it is my hope that our community continues to grow and thrive. Secondly, I’m a firm believer in the KISS principle—it is actually driving much of the development of these materials, none of which are new or different--simply consolidated. Third, it’s no more than we are currently doing in transition training if you examine the different tracks and information presented. Fourth, one of the underlying purposes of this project is to postulate an acceptable means of alternate instructor certification, easing the requirements for providing quality instruction to a larger group of folks. It is also designed to help eliminate some current LODA restrictions, expanding the capabilities of folks conducting type specific training using EAB aircraft. It is comprehensive, but not all parts are designed for all folks or circumstances.

Flying will never be devoid of the requirement for training and experience. That requirement isn’t driven by regulation; it’s driven by an inherent need of the endeavor. One point to ponder is the “requirement” for type specific training--the only existing “requirement” is driven by the insurance industry (typically five hours). There is no regulatory requirement for type specific training for airplanes weighing less than 12,500 lbs and I am not an advocate of such a regulatory requirement.

Some experienced pilots can, no doubt, quite successfully strap on an RV-type and fly, teaching themselves to comfortably and safely operate the airplane throughout the entire envelope. I do know that after 35 years of experience, lots of flying time in many different types of airplanes and some of the best civilian, government and airline training available, as well as quite a bit of instructor experience, I’m not that pilot—as I said previously, it’s all of the information I would have liked to have access to when I was learning to fly my RV-4. It is simply my attempt to share what I’ve learned and give something back to my community. Any recommended “standards” are based on existing Practical Test Standards or current industry practice.

As humans, what we learn at the core of our flight training (the law of primacy) will be the skill set that our flying is based on whether we do it for fun or professionally. Aviation is inherently unforgiving of error. A basic core skill set can be quite effective for saving us from ourselves as we endeavor to become old pilots. Pilots have debated for years what the breadth of that core skill set should be and I have presented a broad spectrum of potential skills, all or part of which can be adapted to RV-types. It will always be incumbent upon the individual airman (pilot, instructor or mentor) to use judgment in deciding what to explore and what is appropriate, i.e., individual choice and freedom.


Mike Vaccaro
Mike Vaccaro
RV-4 2112
Niceville, Florida

Last edited by Vac : 08-17-2014 at 08:15 AM.
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:37 AM
Vac Vac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Niceville, Florida
Posts: 491
Default Draft Version 2.0 Posted

Version 2.0 has been posted. Here is a link to the complete document:

Brief Summary of Changes:

Numerous editorial changes throughout, primarily in Part 1. Added landing currency requirement for basic track. Updated instructor track objective standards to conform to commercial pilot PTS. Removed reference to indicated airspeed and replaced with calibrated airspeed throughout the document. Added example of stabilized approach criteria. Added basic IMC (single pilot) considerations and expanded rough air operational considerations in the All Weather Operations section in Part 3. Standardized definition of ?unload? (0-1/2 G) throughout all portions of the document. Updated table of contents. Added hyperlinks throughout the document to make navigation easier. All changes are in red for reference, deletions aren?t tracked.


I goofed up when I made the transition from the previous draft version to the current draft version when I saved the file, so there may be a few changes from the previous version (1.9 Dated 12 August 2014) still in red that slipped through this edit. It is necessary to download the PDF version of the document from Google Docs to enable hyperlinks.

Creating hyperlinks is an ?old dog/new tricks? endeavor, so I?ll continue to improve the links and organization as time (and ability!) permit. Hopefully those included thus far (including the table of contents) work as intended. If you would like a PDF or Word version of the current draft, just drop a PM or e-mail and I will forward a copy.

As always, inputs/suggestions and corrections are welcome, either by PM, e-mail or post in this thread.

Fly safe,

Mike Vaccaro
RV-4 2112
Niceville, Florida
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Old 10-08-2014, 11:19 PM
crabandy crabandy is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ks
Posts: 2,314

I really appreciate your work and dedication on this subject, today I reread the portion on lazy8's , spins, low AOA ballistic recovery, inverted low AOA ballistic recovery and low AOA slow rolls. I made some shorthand notes and went out and flew the maneuvers.
I was a little nervous on the first couple maneuvers, but everything felt familiar. My Aerobatic instructor must have done a good job on my first and only aero lesson as far as basic aircraft control is concerned. I never really correlated (levels of learning from FOI-RUAC) what I've learned and what I've read until after reading and flying your syllabus. I really need to up my perspective, Apparently my feet on the horizon isn't 25* I need to double it!!
Following the syllabus reinforced my training and I followed up with aileron rolls, barrel rolls and loops for 25 minutes. I'm so ready for another aerobatic lesson and finish the syllabus. I'm looking forward to learning the rest of the "Gentleman's Aerobatics!"
RV 7 500 hours and counting
20 donation done
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Old 11-22-2014, 01:18 PM
Vac Vac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Niceville, Florida
Posts: 491
Default Draft Version 2.1 Posted

Version 2.1 of the draft syllabus is now available at this link:

Revisions are in RED for reference. Deletions aren't tracked.

Revision Highlights:

Revised Table of Contents. Table of contents hyperlinks work in PDF version.

Expanded discussion in Continuity of Training section.

Added negative G excursion training rule for aircraft not equipped with inverted fuel and oil systems.

Corrected note in Table 2-3.

Refined discussion in normal landing section to clarify landing distance rules of thumb and added gust correction technique to VREF computation.

Revised maximum demonstrated cross-wind component discussion.

Added low-level wind shear discussion to All Weather Operation section.

Added Appendix B: Basic instructional briefing considerations and generic RV-type supplemental advanced handling briefing guide based on information presented in Parts 1-3.

As always, any comments or corrections are welcome via post, PM or e-mail. If anyone wishes to have a Word version of the current draft, please drop a line and I’ll be happy to share.

Fly safe,

Mike Vaccaro
RV-4 2112
Niceville, Florida
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Old 12-26-2014, 08:07 AM
Vac Vac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Niceville, Florida
Posts: 491
Default Syllabus Draft Version 2.2 Available

Happy New Year everyone and best wishes for a great 2015! I’ve posted an update to the draft syllabus. The primary purpose for this revision was to beef up the discussion regarding maneuvering speed, as this is commonly misunderstood. The most up-to-date draft may be obtained at this link:

Alternate link (Walt Aronow's site--thanks Walt!): 2.2 Draft.pdf

Version 2.2 Summary of Changes:

Minor changes to cross-controlled stall objectives in Tables 1-3 and 1-4.

Added statement to use of parachute training rule to specify more than one aboard for applicability.

Revised maneuvering speed discussion in RV-type aerodynamics briefing guide. Added figure. Revised “numbers to know by heart.”

Clarified over-square operation. Note: all fixed pitch propellers optimized for cruise operation operate “over-square” during takeoff and climb operations. Generally, over-square operation does no harm if CHT and oil temperatures are within limits and mixture is properly adjusted.

Revised emergency descent discussion.

Revised discussion in Design Load Limit discussion. Added Figure 3-8 that shows relationship of maneuvering speed (symmetric and asymmetric) and G-allowable vs gross weight. Although this Figure references data for the RV-7, the basic relationship holds for all RV-types. Added maximum recommended aerobatic gross weight data and notes 5 and 6 to table 3-5. The most important concept to grasp is the maneuvering speed DECREASES above maximum allowable aerobatic gross weight (or 1600 lbs for RV-9’s). Like the TAS associated with VNE, maneuvering speed varies throughout flight as a function of gross weight and g allowable (g limit). Maneuvering speed may be slower than some folks realize.

Added statement regarding flight control application to warning in Level Turn discussion.

Minor additions to intentional spin discussion.

Maneuvering speed and cross-controlled stall discussion revised in Appendix B (handling briefing).

Moved RV-type Handling Rules of Thumb to Appendix C for ease of reference. New rules added, some rules revised and/or moved/re-numbered. Section is now ordered in phase of flight format. In conjunction with aircraft handling briefing in Appendix B, rules of thumb are designed to be a “reader’s digest” version the detailed information presented in Part 3.

All changes and additions are in red for quick reference. Deletions are not tracked. Table of Contents in pdf version is interactive. I’m working on improving the hyperlinks throughout the document to simplify navigation but learned that Word doesn’t allow linking to custom heading formats (whoops!).

Associated grade sheets for training flights can be accessed at these links:

Basic Transition:

Advanced Transition:

Combined Transition (Basic + Advanced):

Instructor Upgrade:

As always, corrections, discussion and critique are welcome via post, PM or e-mail.

Fly safe,

Mike Vaccaro
RV-4 2112
Niceville, Florida

Last edited by Vac : 12-27-2014 at 03:32 PM. Reason: Attempting to repair links
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Old 12-26-2014, 08:21 AM
humptybump humptybump is offline
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,181

Hi Mike,

Currently I get an error on the first link ...

Google Drive
We're sorry. You can't access this item because it is in violation of our Terms of Service.
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Old 12-26-2014, 09:06 AM
sthopkins sthopkins is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 71

Link 4 inop
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Old 12-26-2014, 09:41 AM
Walt's Avatar
Walt Walt is offline
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 6,350

Please send me a copy, I may be able to post the PDF on my website if it would help.
Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)

EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 2000+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
Website:, Email:, Cell: 972-746-5154
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