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  #41  
Old 01-03-2012, 10:45 AM
SHIPCHIEF SHIPCHIEF is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,412
Default

I joined over at the Torp T-18 forum to see what's up with the previous generation of aluminum hot rods. Nice guys over there, but not many of them.
T-18s are all plans built, The newer S-18 comes as a kit.
I'm reading about the John Thorp 'Matched Hole' construction, and the Whitney Roper #5 Junior punch.
Now I'm not saying I understand it yet, but Matched Hole Construction is supposed to be a real time saver and result in accurate alignment and straight airframes.
I wonder if the RV-3 community should find a way to build RV-3s quicker, instead of expecting Van to do it?
Great going Louise. Ever since Randy Lervold got the RV-3 bug, I've been following you 'purists'.
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EAA 668340, chapter 326 & IAC chapter 67
RV-8 N89SE first flight 12/26/2013
Yak55M, and the wife has an RV-4
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  #42  
Old 01-03-2012, 11:35 AM
Louise Hose's Avatar
Louise Hose Louise Hose is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton, Nevada --- A34
Posts: 1,469
Default Everything is for sale, but......

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvi767 View Post
Louise, I know the burden of owning 3 aircraft has got to be huge. My New Years resolution is to do something good for someone else. I would be glad to buy the 3 from you for a reasonable price just to help you out!!!!!

George
You are right that two civil servants managing three flying airplanes is a stretch that probably isn't sustainable. And, then, there will undoubtedly be another project in a couple of years. But, a reasonable price for Junior (the -3B) in my mind probably isn't reasonable in anyone else's. Paul probably feels the same way about the Valkyrie (-8), since he built it. However, I expect that our concept of a reasonable price for my beloved Mikey (the -6) might be reasonable to others. Mike Seager, you want your baby back? I can probably be talked out of it this summer and I can't think of a better home.

As for Jay's question about the length of our Phase 1, we will have 40 hours.
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Louise Hose, Editor of The Homebuilder's Portal by KITPLANES
RV3B, NX13PL "Tsamsiyu" co-builder, TMXIO-320, test platform Legacy G3X/TruTrak avionics suite
RV-6 ?Mikey? (purchased flying) ? Garmin test platform (G3X Touch, GS28 autopilot servos, GTN650 GPS/Nav/Comm,
GNC255 Nav/Com, GA240 audio panel)
RV8, N188PD "Valkyrie" (by marriage)
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  #43  
Old 01-03-2012, 11:43 AM
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Michael White Michael White is offline
 
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Location: Cartersville, Georgia KVPC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypratt View Post
Several years ago I ask Van if he would match hole the RV3? He said "sure" Just order 900 of them.
I think this is the definitive answer. To date, there are about 2 dozen or so people who've said they'd buy an updated 3.

All we need is about 875 more....
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  #44  
Old 01-03-2012, 11:55 AM
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randylervold randylervold is offline
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Location: Mill Creek, WA
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Louise, great pirep, I just smiled reading it! Makes it all worthwhile, eh?
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RV-12iS, empennage/tailcone complete, wings currently, fuse in box
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  #45  
Old 01-03-2012, 12:52 PM
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KatieB KatieB is offline
 
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Location: Belton, MO
Posts: 1,140
Default Pre-Punch or Not?

The necessity of a pre-punched kit depends on your point of view. If all you've ever done is lay out rivet patterns and make parts from scratch or rough stampings, then it's all fun. Memorize Section 5 of Van's instructions and have at it. Just don't be in a hurry to fly it.

By the time Tony Boy 2.5 is done, he will have 2 new outboard wing leading edge structures (done, with skins from scratch), a new or reskinned wing tank, a new aileron with skin from scratch, new tail feathers (half done), new wing tips with hand-laid AeroLED Pulsar pads, new scratch-made emp fairing, new canopy with a scratch-made skirt, new instrument panel, and assorted FWF things. (and rebuilt aft fuselage, all done.) If I can do all that, so can you pre-punchers! I haven't done it all yet, but I've done enough jigging, skinning, fabrication, and glass work to know that I CAN do it. The resources on this forum are invaluable and provide much more than any new instruction manual from Van can provide. (Some corrected measurements on the plans would be nice though!)

My favorite answer from my A&P boyfriend/helper is, "I've never done THAT before! Figure it out!"
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  #46  
Old 01-03-2012, 01:06 PM
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Geico266 Geico266 is offline
 
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The -3 is the best of them all. Louise's Pirep certainly supports that for sure.

Now try a little acro in junior. It is as nimble as they come.
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  #47  
Old 01-03-2012, 01:55 PM
Louise Hose's Avatar
Louise Hose Louise Hose is offline
 
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Location: Dayton, Nevada --- A34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geico266 View Post
Now try a little acro in junior. It is as nimble as they come.
Paul is doing all the "pushing the envelope " stuff and came back from some fairly extensive acro tests an hour ago. He seemed "pleased." Actually volunteered that it looped "much easier than the Val." I expect he will report soon. Me? I did a morning flight and discovered I still have a ways to go before I tame this thing! I'm continuing to shot 200' pass my target altitude before I realize it. If I tried a loop, I'd probably end up doing two of them before I re-gained level flight!
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RV3B, NX13PL "Tsamsiyu" co-builder, TMXIO-320, test platform Legacy G3X/TruTrak avionics suite
RV-6 ?Mikey? (purchased flying) ? Garmin test platform (G3X Touch, GS28 autopilot servos, GTN650 GPS/Nav/Comm,
GNC255 Nav/Com, GA240 audio panel)
RV8, N188PD "Valkyrie" (by marriage)

Last edited by Louise Hose : 01-03-2012 at 01:58 PM.
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  #48  
Old 01-03-2012, 02:54 PM
fatherson fatherson is offline
 
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Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 427
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHIPCHIEF View Post
I wonder if the RV-3 community should find a way to build RV-3s quicker, instead of expecting Van to do it?
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KatieB View Post
The necessity of a pre-punched kit depends on your point of view. If all you've ever done is lay out rivet patterns and make parts from scratch or rough stampings, then it's all fun.
And this.

Scott and Katie each capture the right spirit of the thing for me. Those who are lobbying for a pre-punched kit want to have a -3, but for me, a large part of the romance of the existing kit is how you must build a -3.

These early reports of Junior's nimbleness are just the icing after Paul's and Louise's long history of excellent reports of their build. Reading those first, and then following up with Randy's and Rob's build sites, makes me think of DR and Katie and Anthony and the others now building -3's as our real pioneers--keeping alive some of the history of scratch-building. They're like civil-war battle reenactment buffs.

I'm glad for the modern, pre-punched kits, too. They are the reason a slouch like me has any hope of building my first airplane. But I'm even more glad there are the few, the proud, who do it "old school" and then report what's possible.

--
Stephen
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  #49  
Old 01-03-2012, 04:31 PM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Location: Dayton, NV
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Default Since You Asked...

I don't want to steal Louise's thread, but here's a quick report on my first real Acro session in the airplane:

Fantastic, Wonderful, Delightful, Amazing, Fast, Quick, Precise....what did I miss?

This was an envelope expansion test, the first time out of the box for any significant acro. Before the Acro, I did some power-off, full-stalls to check the signatures and repeatability of IAS at the break. Four clean, four dirty - each configuration stalled the same each time (55 knots clean, 50 dirty). It fell off in whichever direction my toe was resting on the pedal - no preference for going one way or the other.

For acro, I kept things simple - started with Commercial maneuvers (chandelles, lazy eights), did some wing-overs to see how coordinated and precise they could be flown, then went on to basic rolls (aileron and barrel), loops, Immelman's, Half-rolls on an up-line pulled down to a 45 (sort of an inverted parabolic maneuver). Everything was light and precise - no tendency for overshoot - it goes exactly where you tell it. Half-deflection roll rates are about 2.5 seconds for 360 degrees ("one-potato, two-potato, three...."). I'll have to check the G3X data files to be sure. Loops from level flight put about 3 G's on the meter, with about 65% power on the EFIS.

Yup - I think I'm likin' it better and better....
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RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
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Last edited by Ironflight : 01-03-2012 at 05:02 PM.
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  #50  
Old 01-03-2012, 05:14 PM
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GusBiz GusBiz is offline
 
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Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 211
Default Economics

The answer for Vans is simple.

No pre-punched anything, CAD Plans, correct dimensions, updated elements in build instruction through the plans.

Then charge a higher price for the "New" kit.

Charge the price of the -8 kit for the -3 and that will fix a lot of economic issues.

I don't think anyone who wants the 3 will argue with that. Considering its either pay $15k more or not have the plane at all.

It would certainly sort out the talkers from the buyers.
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