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  #11  
Old 05-08-2020, 09:19 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,161
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Josh (Fynfurfun) has an excellent point. I built a Searey that unfortunately I lost in an incident on a lake. Bad day to say the least. I was so fed up that I took out my Swiss Army knife and cut out the data plate before pulling the airworthiness certificate and giving it to a guy who said he wanted it for parts. A year later I got a phone call from Canada. The guy had exported it forging my name. I contacted the FAA and their Canadian counterpart who both assured me I had no liability since I have the data plate and deregistered the plane, but neither took legal action against the guy. Then 6 months later another guy called me and asked if he could get the airworthiness certificate so he could claim His Searey was the one I built and avoid an FAA inspection of his build! I gave him the mid finger salute! There are unscrupulous people out there, so when you are reading logs for a prebuy bear in mind you may be reading fiction, not a documentary.
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  #12  
Old 05-09-2020, 10:33 AM
Flynfrfun Flynfrfun is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Bonney Lake, WA
Posts: 62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post
How many hours a year, or a month, is enough?
This varies for me. Typically a flight a week or every other week. I belonged to a club which is the most cost efficient. I mean it was CHEAP...$68/hr wet for a 172 in 2015. Currently its still only $77/hr. But there were 65 members (sharing 4 planes) of which you didn't see more than about 10 at the monthly meetings. It felt more like renting. I prefer the pride of ownership even though it will be much more expensive. I?m in my mid 40s. Ideally I would like to partner with a retired gentleman who could enjoy flying weekdays and let me fly weekends. I respect, enjoy being around and like to learn from the older and wiser crowd who have lots of good life lessons to pass down to the younger generation. It would be fun getting together to change the oil on our plane and do whatever maintenance we felt comfortable doing together. OK now I?m dreaming a little

Last edited by Flynfrfun : 05-09-2020 at 10:37 AM.
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  #13  
Old 05-09-2020, 12:55 PM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 1,193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flynfrfun View Post
This varies for me. Typically a flight a week or every other week. I belonged to a club which is the most cost efficient. I mean it was CHEAP...$68/hr wet for a 172 in 2015. Currently its still only $77/hr. But there were 65 members (sharing 4 planes) of which yo didn't see more than about 10 at the monthly meetings. It felt more like renting. I prefer the pride of ownership even though it will be much more expensive. I’m in my mid 40s. Ideally I would like to partner with a retired gentleman who could enjoy flying weekdays and let me fly weekends. I respect, enjoy being around and like to learn from the older and wiser crowd who have lots of good life lessons to pass down to the younger generation. It would be fun getting together to change the oil on our plane and do whatever maintenance we felt comfortable doing together. OK now I’m dreaming a little
I am what you're looking for, but 1000 + miles separates us. Don't know about the older and wiser part, new to aviation here.

Everyone wants to fly weekends, do the $100 burger social runs. That's prime time for fly ins, everyone is off of work.

If I run the numbers, to own, with hangar, insurance, registration, property/luxury tax here in CA, about 10 hours a month or more, might be break even point. I might want to fly that much when first learning and after getting my sport pilot license, but I question how long I will sustain flying that many hours per month.

What I originally thought was a form of transportation is so weather dependent, that its really just a very expensive hobby, going flying. I've been helping a buddy with everything on his RV-12 now for 16 months, through 2 inspection annuals, service bulletins, maintenance, you name it, and I won't kid you, it's a very, very time consuming hobby to keep and maintain an Experimental plane. You lose a gearbox on a Rotax early, due to wear and tear, and the parts add up fast to fix anything on a Rotax. Just a lot of different procedures with a Rotax compared to a Lycoming or Conti.

Floats on Carbs getting heavy and sinking, Carb synching, inspecting prop hubs, Dogs wearing in the gearbox, Belleville washers, lead from 100LL fuel in the clutches and ring seats, etc. Only the spark plugs are cheap. Inspections for chaffing hoses, cracks in aluminum inspections everywhere you can imagine, and some tough to get at unimaginable places too as you get old and less flexible.

If you're mechanically inclined, great, but I don't know too many AP's at the local airport that know much about RV-12s, if you have to pay to get it worked on.

Last edited by NinerBikes : 05-28-2020 at 02:08 PM.
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  #14  
Old 05-09-2020, 03:10 PM
Piper J3's Avatar
Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Hinckley, Ohio
Posts: 2,559
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I guess I need to jump in here. It just depends on what you want to do in life... I?m 67 years old, been flying for almost 50 years, and I?d like to fly a lot more before I have to put down the spoon.

So, you buy a $60,000 used airplane that someone else built. About the cost of a real nice car. Fly, enjoy, and when the time comes, sell for residual value. Try selling a 15 year old car. Banks are paying <2% interest and the stock market just lost 30%.

In the meantime, E-LSA is an incredible value. FAA allows self-cert health, you do your own maintenance, take 16-hour course and do your own Annual Cond Inspection. The only ?hired guns? you need are CFI for BFR and avionics shop to certify transponder.

Once all SB?s are complete, the 12 is extremely easy to maintain. Treat the engine like Rotax explains and use Mobil 4T synthetic oil with 93E10 Mogas. Rotax certified technicians at KOSH last year said you need a very good set of mics to measure any engine wear at 2000TT. No Top Overhaul halfway through TBO. Water-cooled heads and heavy cast cylinders stay "round" unlike air-cooled (i.e., quench) cylinders. Almost no oil consumption between 100 hour oil changes with Mobil 4T. Buy Tier-1 auto fuel at Costco for cheap. Liability insurance costs me $400/yr. No hull insurance ? I accept that risk.

Did I say enjoy flying? So, you either sit on the ground and look skyward wishing you were flying, or, you actually do the deed. So far, I?ve been living the dream. Best flights have been with my triplet granddaughters. Grandpa ? can we go fly in your airplane?
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Jim Stricker - EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC N86203
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub N6841H
Bought Flying RV-12 #120058 Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 750

LSRM-A Certificate 2016 for RV-12 N633CM
Special Thanks... EJ Trucks - USN Crew Chief A-4 Skyhawk
MJ Stricker (Father - CFI) - USAAF 1st Lt. Captain B-17H
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  #15  
Old 05-09-2020, 04:45 PM
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Chino Tom Chino Tom is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 739
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Great post Jim!
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Chino, CA
RV-8A,180/CS/Carb, AFS 4500 EFIS/EMS
RV-6, sold, 820 hrs of fun.
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  #16  
Old 05-09-2020, 10:27 PM
pilotyoung pilotyoung is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 252
Default Seriously considering buying built RV-12

I agree with what Jim said. I am 72 and learned to fly at 21. I bought my RV-12 two years ago and have flown it 100 hours a year. I hope to fly many more years. The RV-12 is not that hard to maintain. And it is the most inexpensive flying you will ever do. And I really like flying my own airplane as opposed to renting or being in a club. When I go to the airport to fly, the airplane is just as I left it. I don't have to wonder if someone abused it since I flew it last. Today I flew about 1.3 hours. When I put it back in the hangar I fueled it, cleaned the windscreen and the leading edges of the wings. It is ready to go again with a quick pre-flight and sump the fuel.

If you get a good pre-buy inspection, I don't think you can go wrong with an RV-12.
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John D. Young, RV-12 Owner
Serial Number 120022, N6812Y
Bought it as a flying airplane in Feb. 2018
Just passed 300 hours flight time in RV-12, and 10,000 hours mostly in corporate jets. I am a CFI; CFII; MEI; and a Advanced Ground Instructor, CFIG; and hoping to be able to help new RV-12 owners by doing some transition training for new builders and owners in RV-12's.
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  #17  
Old 05-10-2020, 09:52 AM
Flynfrfun Flynfrfun is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Bonney Lake, WA
Posts: 62
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Jim and John...age is a mindset. You guys are young! Thanks for the great advice!

My wife will be done with school next year. After that she had instructed me to buy a plane. She is worried I will be sitting on the sidelines dreaming and possibly wake up one day physically or mentally unable to fly. Thankfully we are debt free and retirement is being funded properly. So an airplane will not be an irresponsible use of funds at this point. I just have to mentally prepare myself because I?m pretty frugal by nature and your encouragement helps!
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  #18  
Old 05-10-2020, 11:36 AM
pilotyoung pilotyoung is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 252
Default Seriously considering buying built RV-12

Flynfrfun,

When I made the appointment to go look at the RV-12, I had serious doubts about buying it and affording it. I was ready to cancel the appointment, and I was driving about 8 hours to see it, but my wife told me to go. She said if I didn't go look at it I would wonder about my decision the rest of my life. So I went and most of the drive I was telling myself I would not buy it. Well I saw it, flew it, and bought it. I have not looked back. It has been an amazing two years and I love flying it. My wife likes that I have a hangar to go to. Before I bought it I told my two children that I was spending their inheritance. They both told me to do it.

So it sounds like it is a sound financial move for you so do it.

john
__________________
John D. Young, RV-12 Owner
Serial Number 120022, N6812Y
Bought it as a flying airplane in Feb. 2018
Just passed 300 hours flight time in RV-12, and 10,000 hours mostly in corporate jets. I am a CFI; CFII; MEI; and a Advanced Ground Instructor, CFIG; and hoping to be able to help new RV-12 owners by doing some transition training for new builders and owners in RV-12's.
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  #19  
Old 05-10-2020, 06:55 PM
pietermk pietermk is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 132
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Great story John. I am continuing my effort to buy a RV12.
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Peter
See my builders log, I received the tail kit on February 2011, still working on it. I need more free time Dues paid for 2017
http://www.mykitlog.com/PeterRV12/
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  #20  
Old 05-11-2020, 01:24 PM
mjlorden mjlorden is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seabeck, WA
Posts: 6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flynfrfun View Post
I'm in a similar situation. Except for me I know I won't fly enough to justify the monthly costs. If I could find someone with similar mindset I would love to partner too. Too bad you are not in Seattle!
I have a similar mindset AND am near Seattle! Over in Seabeck on Kitsap peninsula.
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Great Site!
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