VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

-POSTING RULES
-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
Donate methods

Point your
camera app here
to donate fast.

  #11  
Old 05-22-2013, 12:36 PM
plbarrett2004's Avatar
plbarrett2004 plbarrett2004 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 69
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcencula View Post
... I had the very same problem with some of my AN470AD4-5 rivets. I squeezed about a dozen of these today and nearly every one had a 45 degree crack around the outside of the shop head.

Here's a photo:

I know this thread is from 2009, but I had the EXACT same problem last night. AN470AD4-5's cracking in the exact same way as pictured in Mike's post. About 50% of the installed rivets display some level of a 45degree crack.

I've read the MILSPEC, and my interpretation is that this 45 degree crack most likely does intersect the 1.10 diameter circle concentric to the rivet stem and therefore they are out of spec...

That being said, I'm curious what people think of the 45 degree crack (drill out or leave), and the possibility of the rivets being a "bad batch"...
__________________
Peter L. Barrett
CFI, CFII, MEI, CPL-Helo
RV-8 - Firewall Forward in Progress
papalimabravo.com
SEMPER FIDELIS
Dues exempt
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-19-2013, 10:08 PM
fl-mike's Avatar
fl-mike fl-mike is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by plbarrett2004 View Post
I know this thread is from 2009, but I had the EXACT same problem last night. AN470AD4-5's cracking in the exact same way as pictured in Mike's post. About 50% of the installed rivets display some level of a 45degree crack.
Me too! NR marked AN470AD4-5's in the older tail kit I am assembling. Very grainy looking and many/most are cracking. All other 470's are setting just fine (and have the double line "R" mark) Going to go grab my 15 year old 4-5's at the hangar tomorrow. Bet they set just fine. No doubt a bad batch of NR made 4-5's got out. Grrrrr!
__________________
Mike W
Venice, FL
RV-6A. Mattituck TMX O-360, FP, GRT Sport EFIS, L3 Lynx NGT-9000
N164WM
N184WM reserved (RV-8)....finishing kit in progress. Titan IOX-370
N184P reserved (RV-8QB)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-20-2013, 08:31 AM
plbarrett2004's Avatar
plbarrett2004 plbarrett2004 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 69
Default

I tried several different remedies to no avail. I finally grabbed a bunch of replacement rivets from a friend at the airport... and those set just fine. I definitely think its a bad batch of rivets. Replacing them is the best bet.
__________________
Peter L. Barrett
CFI, CFII, MEI, CPL-Helo
RV-8 - Firewall Forward in Progress
papalimabravo.com
SEMPER FIDELIS
Dues exempt
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-20-2013, 09:09 AM
David Paule David Paule is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,078
Default

Just checked my April 2012 kit, and it has none of the "NR" rivets.

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-21-2013, 10:56 AM
fl-mike's Avatar
fl-mike fl-mike is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fl-mike View Post
Me too! NR marked AN470AD4-5's in the older tail kit I am assembling. Very grainy looking and many/most are cracking. All other 470's are setting just fine (and have the double line "R" mark) Going to go grab my 15 year old 4-5's at the hangar tomorrow. Bet they set just fine. No doubt a bad batch of NR made 4-5's got out. Grrrrr!
Yep, drilled out the cracked "NR"s and replaced with circa 1989 stock. They set without issue. Noticed the bag of "NR" crackers was Van's dated 2008. Seems to be in line with the manufactured date others have had issues with.
__________________
Mike W
Venice, FL
RV-6A. Mattituck TMX O-360, FP, GRT Sport EFIS, L3 Lynx NGT-9000
N164WM
N184WM reserved (RV-8)....finishing kit in progress. Titan IOX-370
N184P reserved (RV-8QB)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-07-2019, 02:18 PM
jacoby jacoby is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: WNC
Posts: 323
Default

Resurrecting this thread since I ran into this exact issue with the same AN470AD4-5 rivets adding the reinforcement plates to the elevator front spars.

10/11 I set cracked with 3/11 needing replacement (cracking extends to within 1.1d circle). They exhibited the same odd driving behavior as noted previously (the squeezer didn't set smoothly but instead struggled then finally the rivet gave way). These were also the first time I've had to set the rivets in two stages.

Interestingly enough, only the rivets that I fully set with the pneumatic squeezer cracked. The ones that I half set with the squeezer and then fully set with the gun did just fine.

These were marked AF and have a 2018 date stamp.

Edit: I replaced 9/11. 3 had cracking within the base circle and the remainder had 5+ cracks. Generally everything cracked on the bias. The deeper cracks made a vee with its apex on the shop head.

Drilling out the rivets felt a bit odd. The heads were soft but from there I could feel layers of hard metal. It felt like I was drilling through several different layers of metal.

I think I’m going to order some replacements.

Last edited by jacoby : 05-07-2019 at 07:20 PM. Reason: Updated info
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-08-2019, 12:09 PM
Thunderpig Thunderpig is offline
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Titusville
Posts: 38
Default

Recently had cracking issues as well, but on skin flush rivets. Not sure how old the rivets were, but Vic Syracuse and some others at Sun n Fun recommended replacing the kit rivets with a new order.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-08-2019, 01:16 PM
fl-mike's Avatar
fl-mike fl-mike is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,609
Default

There are strong opinions on this, but you can re-solution heat treat the rivets. I have done it and it works great, but there are risks involved. I only use it on non-critical areas. I happen to have a nice little benchtop heat treatment oven.

For instance, I re-solution heat treated some AN470AD4's that are used to secure the seat hinge to the floor panel because the panel is so thin the shop head tends to distort the metal. Also,you typically have to use a gun and buck them because they are in the middle of the panel. The freshly treated AD4's were easily squeezed with a DRDT operating as a long-reach squeezer! I wish I had used this on the seat backs. The rivets age harden back to spec.

Again, solution heat treating is not annealing!
https://materialsdata.nist.gov/bitst...=3&isAllowed=y

<Flame suit on>
__________________
Mike W
Venice, FL
RV-6A. Mattituck TMX O-360, FP, GRT Sport EFIS, L3 Lynx NGT-9000
N164WM
N184WM reserved (RV-8)....finishing kit in progress. Titan IOX-370
N184P reserved (RV-8QB)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-08-2019, 01:59 PM
jacoby jacoby is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: WNC
Posts: 323
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderpig View Post
Recently had cracking issues as well, but on skin flush rivets. Not sure how old the rivets were, but Vic Syracuse and some others at Sun n Fun recommended replacing the kit rivets with a new order.
My bags were labeled 11-2018 but who knows how old the actual rivets were. All of the bags in the kit were labeled around then. These were the only rivets I've had issues setting and I've set 470AD4-4 through -8 at this point. I haven't had any issues with AD3 sized rivets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fl-mike View Post
There are strong opinions on this, but you can re-solution heat treat the rivets. I have done it and it works great, but there are risks involved. I only use it on non-critical areas. I happen to have a nice little benchtop heat treatment oven.
Interesting. Does it affect the coating any? I don't have any way to control the heat that closely and there are only like $2 worth of 470AD4-5 rivets in the kit. These also hold the ailerons to the HS so I'd consider them critical. There are enough in the plate that it's probably OK to have less than perfect rivets but I don't want to take the chance.



I thought it was interesting to find the exact same issue with the exact same size of rivet nearly a decade later to the day.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-08-2019, 02:19 PM
Gusmax Gusmax is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta
Posts: 88
Default Ice Box Rivets

There was a thread a year ago which would solve this issue http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=158477
__________________
Phil Kite

F4 Raider project with RV-8 wings and tail
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:09 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.