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  #11  
Old 04-02-2019, 10:25 PM
219PB 219PB is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Victoria, Tx
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What about the ones from Vans? On my quotation from Glo Custom, they stated installing Vans wing walk material.
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  #12  
Old 04-03-2019, 12:10 AM
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RV7A Flyer RV7A Flyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: US
Posts: 2,529
Default RAC Wing Walk material

I think ACS carries the same product now, but I got mine from Ray Allen IIRC, and they've held up extremely well. 6+ years now and they look brand new, and a buddy has had them on his 8 for around 11-12 years and they still look great. Clean right up with just a damp microfiber cloth.
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  #13  
Old 04-03-2019, 08:19 AM
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MrNomad MrNomad is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 844
Default acrylic cleaner aka Prep Sol

The wing walk separation fault may be mine. Before I paint cars or airplanes, I always use a product known as Prep Sol, 3M Prep Solvent-70, to clean the surface.

To remove the old glue, I work with a credit card edge and lots of Prep Sol and it works nicely to remove the old residue. The paint remained intact (thank heaven).

The nice people at Flyboys suggested alcohol to clean the wing before applying the "walk" so I am wondering if the Prep Sol left a film that precluded adhesion. What works great with paint may NOT be what works great with the adhesive on the wing walk.

Once again, the folks at Flyboys offered a free replacement which serves as further testimony to their quality service. Blake claims that 95% of his customers have no issue but my walks have failed three times so I have to examine my procedures.

Comments welcome. What did u use before applying the "walk"?
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  #14  
Old 04-03-2019, 09:30 AM
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rleffler rleffler is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNomad View Post
The wing walk separation fault may be mine. Before I paint cars or airplanes, I always use a product known as Prep Sol, 3M Prep Solvent-70, to clean the surface.

To remove the old glue, I work with a credit card edge and lots of Prep Sol and it works nicely to remove the old residue. The paint remained intact (thank heaven).

The nice people at Flyboys suggested alcohol to clean the wing before applying the "walk" so I am wondering if the Prep Sol left a film that precluded adhesion. What works great with paint may NOT be what works great with the adhesive on the wing walk.

Once again, the folks at Flyboys offered a free replacement which serves as further testimony to their quality service. Blake claims that 95% of his customers have no issue but my walks have failed three times so I have to examine my procedures.

Comments welcome. What did u use before applying the "walk"?
I personally had three sets of Flyboys wing walk fail and another RV-10 at my airport went through two sets. I noticed while flying Young Eagles last summer what the root cause appears to be. When the surface gets hot, the adhesive went soft and the wing walk material starts moving. In my case, I was kneeling on the wing to assist kids with their seat belts. I pivoted on my knee and the material moved with me.

I have since replaced with material from Ray Allen. That's been on since last June and I haven't had any issues yet.

I used MEK to remove the old adhesive.
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  #15  
Old 04-03-2019, 09:42 AM
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Plummit Plummit is offline
 
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Location: SoCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rleffler View Post
I noticed while flying Young Eagles last summer what the root cause appears to be. When the surface gets hot, the adhesive went soft and the wing walk material starts moving.
Wow Bob, you fly Y.E. in a -10??? That's kinda like doing Driver's Ed class in a Ferrari! ;-)

regards
-Marc
P.S. I bought ? interest in a C-172 that I use for Y.E.
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  #16  
Old 04-03-2019, 10:15 AM
krw5927 krw5927 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wichita, KS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rleffler View Post
I personally had three sets of Flyboys wing walk fail and another RV-10 at my airport went through two sets. I noticed while flying Young Eagles last summer what the root cause appears to be. When the surface gets hot, the adhesive went soft and the wing walk material starts moving. In my case, I was kneeling on the wing to assist kids with their seat belts. I pivoted on my knee and the material moved with me.

I have since replaced with material from Ray Allen. That's been on since last June and I haven't had any issues yet.

I used MEK to remove the old adhesive.
Flyboys wing walk material failed for me as well after about 300 hours of flying. It was a bear to remove the adhesive, using copious amounts of mineral spirits and elbow grease. Replaced with another set of the same material, but only a few months after that my plane was professionally painted. The paint shop installed Vans wing walk, which hopefully has better longevity.
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  #17  
Old 04-03-2019, 10:28 AM
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MrNomad MrNomad is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
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Thumbs up Notes from Ray Allen's website

Bob:

Looking at Ray Allen's website on wing walk installation it says to clean the surface with a wax and grease remover. Prep Sol is a wax and grease remover. Next, clean the surface with alcohol, which I may NOT have done. Not sure.

Don't apply in hot conditions which means if I plan to fix this right now (in Tucson), I will install at 5am.

The bond will become stronger in a few days which means I should stay grounded for a few days. Then apply a little heat which Mother Nature supplies in abundance down here.

Thx Bob. I will order today.
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  #18  
Old 04-03-2019, 12:37 PM
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n82rb n82rb is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: fort myers fl
Posts: 1,092
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I live in Florida, I get it at the boat store. If it will stand up to the sa or envirment here it will work on my airplane.

Bob burns
Rv-4 n82rb
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  #19  
Old 04-03-2019, 12:49 PM
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rleffler rleffler is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plummit View Post
Wow Bob, you fly Y.E. in a -10??? That's kinda like doing Driver's Ed class in a Ferrari! ;-)

regards
-Marc
P.S. I bought ? interest in a C-172 that I use for Y.E.
It's not uncommon for us to have three RV-10s, a RV-12, and a RV-14 flying YE plus a few other experimentals. We also have a few spam cans too.
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  #20  
Old 04-03-2019, 09:11 PM
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BlakeFrazier BlakeFrazier is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 64
Default Manufacturer says...

Hi folks, thought I would chime in here and hopefully add a little info to the discussion.

The stuff we sell on our website is a little bit different from the grit paper you find on most airplanes (that's why we like it). It is, in fact, a product that we get from a marine supply, so it is designed to stand up to sea and sun.

I've struggled for a while about whether to keep this product on the store. As you can probably tell from reading this thread, there are a number of folks that have had a similar issue with it, and I haven't been able to satisfactorily answer why this happens. At the same time, there is a silent majority that gets the stuff, presumably use it, and seem to have no complaints. In fact, just last week I was discussing this conundrum with another customer and she said to me "Please do not take this product off the shelf. We have applied your wing walk on our RV-6 and on a Zodiac a few years ago with fantastic results. We still think it is a great product, and probably the best wing walk that is offered right now."

While this issue is uncommon (I would estimate fewer than 5% of my customers seem to have any issue at all with this product), it does seem to get focused on "repeat offenders"... those that have the issue are likely to have it more than once (or, like in rleffler's case, multiple folks in the same flying group). Since there doesn't seem to be a recognizable geographic component to the issue, this leads me to believe that there may be a process issue.

I talked to the manufacturer of this product about the delamination failure. Their opinion is "The only time I have seen this type of issue is when the surface is prepped with a solvent based cleaner that breaks down the adhesive," and they go on to recommend a prep solution of 50/50 isopropyl and water mixture.

For what it's worth, I'm still on the fence about the whole issue. It seems like a stretch to think that residual VOCs or solvent left on the surface after using a prep solvent would compromise the adhesive in a long-term way, but I'm certainly no chemist, so I really can't say.

For the time being, what I've decided to do is keep the product going for the 95% of people that have good experiences and do everything I can to support the 5% that have trouble. We've added the manufacturer recommended prep instructions to any new orders. What I don't want to do is misrepresent the product or hide a flaw, and I certainly would like to know about any issues and have a chance to make things right!
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