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Old 04-23-2018, 07:52 AM
SinCityJets's Avatar
SinCityJets SinCityJets is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 63
Default Everyone should watch this. May save your life.
Exempt, but gladly paid VAF Dues for '18

Please excuse the dumb questions. I'm an FNG!
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Old 04-23-2018, 09:05 AM
Mark Dickens's Avatar
Mark Dickens Mark Dickens is offline
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Collierville, TN (KFYE)
Posts: 1,475

I missed this when it was first posted, but well worth watching! Thanks for highlighting it again.
RV-8 #81077 Super Slow Build
Dynon Skyview HDX, Titan IOX-370, Dual P-Mags, AFP FM200A FI, Whirlwind 200RV CS Prop
First Flight 11/20/2016
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:34 AM
rvsxer rvsxer is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Inver Grove Hgts, MN
Posts: 358

This used to be referred to as a "spin out the bottom". A slipping turn will produce a "spin off the top" where the airplane rolls upright, and keeps going into a spin if the stall isn't promptly broken. I used to renew my CFI with checkrides and years ago the examiner mentioned the FAA was calling for coupling stall practice with real-world scenarios. This instructor was doing just that. I like the way he continued the roll, demonstrating the value of aerobatic or at least upset training. Great video.
Mike Hilger
RV-6 N207AM w/G3X, 1,800 hours +
South St. Paul, MN (KSGS)
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor

We're all here because we're not all there...
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:14 AM
drill_and_buck's Avatar
drill_and_buck drill_and_buck is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bridgewater, MA - KPYM
Posts: 479

This is an excellent video and good reason why RVers should get some training in basic aerobatics and unusual recovery. Note the difference in recovery procedures. The instructor smoothly rolled through the skidding stall with nominal altitude loss whereas the pilot froze, stopped the roll half-way through, and put the plane in a nose low attitude. Yikes!

Go out and find a good aerobatic instructor and spend some time practicing unusual attitude and spin recovery procedures. Do it to the point where it is second nature. Have some fun and fly safe.
Mike Draper
RV-8 N468RV
First Flight 11/13/2011
TMX0360, Dual Pmags, CS
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Old 04-23-2018, 04:08 PM
gmohr gmohr is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Trenton, SC
Posts: 175

An amazing video that we should all be aware of.
Gene Mohr
Ret. US Army
RV6A (purchased), O360, Hartzell C/S prop
Trenton, SC (S17 homebase)
Happily Donated
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Old 04-23-2018, 06:49 PM
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AJ85WA AJ85WA is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 268
Default New video of spin crash

And here is a new video that surfaced just a few days ago in Russia of this exact thing happening.

Unfortunate and sad to see this!
AJ Wessels (Perth Australia)

Completed - RV6
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Old 04-23-2018, 09:22 PM
Paul 5r4 Paul 5r4 is offline
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Foley, Al
Posts: 630

Watching that gave me a sickening feeling! A valuable lesson!
Paul Gray
Foley, Alabama
N729PG..... 500+ hrs
RV 7A, Lycoming 0 320 D1A, Sensenich FP propeller
VAF supporter $$$
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:21 PM
rockwoodrv9 rockwoodrv9 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Meridian ID, Aspen CO, Okemos MI
Posts: 2,856

Originally Posted by AJ85WA View Post
And here is a new video that surfaced just a few days ago in Russia of this exact thing happening.

Unfortunate and sad to see this!
Wow, that is very sobering. It is easy to think the guy was showing off without the skills needed, but there have been a good number of high time real pilots to spun in that I know of. There was a comment about minimal lost altitude by the instructor. I think he said 800'. Except for downwind, I am not that high when I fly the pattern.

I dont think this takes it off topic, but does this make the rounded pattern for final over the rectangle more or less dangerous? I can argue with myself both positions.
Williamston MI
O-320 D2A
Flying N376E
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Old 04-25-2018, 01:01 AM
Vac Vac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Niceville, Florida
Posts: 490
Default Skidding and Slipping Departures from Controlled Flight in an RV

VIDEOS UPDATED. Added higher resolution videos, if available and added some additional examples of cross-controlled stalls in my RV-4.

Here are some clips showing what happens if you stall the airplane in a skid. In a skid, the airplane rapidly departs controlled flight "underneath" when the critical angle of attack is exceeded. There is very limited aerodynamic warning in the form of buffet and nose slice visual cues. The fastest recovery (minimum altitude loss) is to actually keep the roll going after the initial snap roll to an inverted position:

During the first demo above, altitude loss is about 400 feet; but that's based on initial entry conditions (level turn) and the fact that I know what's going to happen--much different than accidentally encountering a similar condition in a descending turn. If you read the captions, you'll note I can't do math in public as regards the altitude loss (no excuse)...The bottom line is that a loss-of-control at or below traffic pattern altitude makes recovery problematic at best, which means avoidance is critical (as other folks have wisely pointed out in this thread). Here are a couple more examples. The standby altimeter is visible to the right of the top EFIS, so altitude loss during the maneuver can be noted...but again, the maneuver is begun from a level turn and I’m anticipating auto-rotation:

The next clip shows the view out the rear during a skidding departure in high resolution:

It's an aviation urban legend that you can't depart controlled flight if you stall in a slip--of course you can, but you have to ignore significant aerodynamic warning to do so. In this case, the airplane wratchets as limited dihedral effect starts to roll the airplane at high AOA, warning you that something bad is about to happen with all of that counter aileron applied. In the first example, a sustained wing-rock begins and the airplane eventually rolls counter to direction of the intended turn. In the second and third examples, the airplane fully departs after extensive aerodynamic warning:

Here's some high resolution rear cockpit views of a slipping deep stall...

In this example, the airplane departs "over-the-top" after a sustained wing rock develops:

In this example, the airplane does not depart but remains in a sustained wing-rock/deep stall with full slip input:

If you pay attention to the horizontal stabilizer and elevator in the last two clips, you'll notice the slipping deep-stall and departure induces a noticeable buffeting of the horizontal stabilizer. This has the potential to induce fatigue damage to the structure. This buffet characteristic may be unique to the RV-4, or simply unique to my RV-4; but is the reason that I address this phenomenon in the transition training manual when discussing this type of departure. Cross-controlled stalls are discussed on pp. 336-337. I only fly this maneuver (intentional slipping departure) for test and training demonstration purposes due to the buffet characteristic.

Fly Safe,

Mike Vaccaro
RV-4 2112
Niceville, Florida

Last edited by Vac : 05-01-2018 at 08:56 AM. Reason: videos updated
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Old 04-25-2018, 02:20 PM
morganjohn24 morganjohn24 is offline
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: College Station
Posts: 35

This is a perfect illustration of why I believe that all pilots should learn stall/spins, including inverted spins, and basic aerobatic sequences.

I have done some of the above and continue to take aerobatic lessons. They are worth every single penny and I get better with every single lesson.
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