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  #11  
Old 08-22-2014, 10:37 PM
N54SG N54SG is offline
 
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Location: Kansas City, MO
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Default

Not that the others haven't listed good things, but..

I had a similar problem and found this inside my SkyTec starter.



It was close enough it would work most times. But sometimes it wouldn't... what a pain those problems are.
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  #12  
Old 08-23-2014, 08:40 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 6,735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ao.frog View Post
Thanks for the replies guys! Highly appreciated!

I've been at the hangar two days now, doing some checking, and here are the findings:

Day 1:
Volt at the battery with all switches OFF: 12.82
Volt at the battery with battery switch ON: 12.72
Volt on the IN-side of the Master relay: 12.62
Volt on the IN-side of the Starter relay: 12.41
Volt on the OUT-side of the Starter relay: 12.18 (key to "START" and wire to the starter disconnected)
Volt on the battery after a few tests with batt switch ON: 12.58

Day 2
Volt at the battery with all switches OFF: 13.03
Volt at the IN-side of the master relay: 12.52
Volt on the IN-side of the starter relay: 12.45


I noticed something strange:
I measured 00.01 volt on the OUT-side of the starter-relay with the starter switch i OFF-position.
I also measured a connection THROUGH the starter-relay with the starter switch on the OFF position: the ohm indicated 6,5 - 7,0 ohm.
I also got a "beeeep" when turning the multimeter selector to the loudspeaker symbol.

Day 1:
During the very first time I turned the key to "START", there where a 3-4 sec delay before the firm click came from the starter relay.
All other times the key where turned after that, the click came right away.
The starter relay where JUST a little warm to touch after testing.

Day 2:
The click came right away when the key where turned to "START".
Same result during the next few start-attempts: click came right away.

All connections where tight and looked normal.

My thoughts are towards the starter relay. Anyone have other thoughts?
I think it's strange that there where a connection through the starter relay in disengaged position?
It'd be great if someone else could check their starter relays for ohm and beep in disengaged position and post their findings here?

I think I'll order a new starter relay if someone else doesn't have a better idea?


PS: I can't honestly say that my volt-meter shows 100% correct values, but the relationship beetween the different readings schould be fairly accurate.

Thanks guys!
Your testing confirmations my primary suspicion, as I outlined above. Replace the solenoid (stand-alone, correct?) and all should be fine. If problems persist, report those and we can explore the next likely cause.

Without knowing what terminals gave you the 6.5 ohms, I can't say for sure. I would not expect any resistance across the contactor at rest, IF the cables are removed. If not, you could be picking up resistance across a circuit in the wiring.
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  #13  
Old 08-23-2014, 01:28 PM
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hgerhardt hgerhardt is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: torrance, ca
Posts: 745
Default it's the Skytec solenoid

It's most likely the solenoid on the Skytec starter. I had the identical symptom on mine soon after installing an overhauled starter. After sending it back to Skytec, they told me that they had a bad batch of solenoids with a manufacturing defect (burr) that prevented or slowed the movement of the plunger which activates the contactor and moves the pinion gear. Replaced the solenoid and all has been good for ~3 years now.

Heinrich
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  #14  
Old 08-25-2014, 10:13 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hgerhardt View Post
It's most likely the solenoid on the Skytec starter. I had the identical symptom on mine soon after installing an overhauled starter. After sending it back to Skytec, they told me that they had a bad batch of solenoids with a manufacturing defect (burr) that prevented or slowed the movement of the plunger which activates the contactor and moves the pinion gear. Replaced the solenoid and all has been good for ~3 years now.

Heinrich
This is good to examine as well. You likely have two solenoids. The stand alone one that I thought we were discussing, as well as the solenoid on the starter. I don't know if you followed my recommendation, but you should. Pull the cable from the solenoid to the starter and test for delays in clicks. If none, reconnect the cable and try again. this should tell you which solenoid is hanging up. Best to do this before replacing parts.

Larry
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  #15  
Old 08-27-2014, 09:56 AM
ao.frog ao.frog is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Manstad, Norway
Posts: 866
Default Some replies

Thanks for the input guys.

Here are some replies to your questions and suggestions:

The wiring is as depicted on the "certified" drawing:
In other words it's like it schould be with the ACS switch.

Ground path: we've installed a separate ground wire with the same size as the starter wire (#2 awg I think?)
This wire is installed on one of the four bolts holding the starter onto the engine. The other end of the wire is connected to battery negative.

Ohm: the 6.5 - 7 ohm where measured across the two big terminals on the starter relay. I didn't think of measuring the ohm across the two small terminals.

Sky Tech solenoid: I didn't think of the built in solenoid in the starter, but since the delay where still present when the starter-power wire where disconnected at the starter relay, my thoughts are towards the starter relay for now.
Therefore, I've ordered a new one from Vans and it's on it's way over here.

My plan is to install the new starter relay when it gets here. I'll also open the old relay and look for burned contactors inside. That'll be interesting! I'll post results and pics when it's done.

BTW: on startup today, the starter engaged right away when the key where turned. That was the VERY FIRST TIME the starter had zero delay since the very first start a few months ago.
That made me very happy, but a few mins later, my happiness faded away: we'd to turn back right after t/o due to engine roughness. That episode is described in another post here on the forum, so that's another story....
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Last edited by ao.frog : 08-27-2014 at 10:04 AM.
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  #16  
Old 02-22-2016, 02:47 PM
ao.frog ao.frog is offline
 
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Location: Manstad, Norway
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Default Update

Hi guys.

This is an update to the tread I started a while back:

Two things has happened since then:

1) I have replaced the starter relay but the delay is still there.

2) The delay has gradually became longer: now it's 13-15 secs.

Therefore, I have decided it's time to get to the bottom of this once and for all. Today, I did some more checking and here's the results:

Immediately when the starter relay "clicks", there's power on the out side of the starter relay and the starter turns the engine.

When I manually put 12V onto the starter wire, the starter immediately turns the engine.

Therefore, it seems to me that the starter and the starter relay is OK.

I measured the volts on the little terminal on the starter relay which receives power from the ignition switch through a small wire.
I guess that's the terminal who makes the starter relay engage when you turn the key.
(I have the A-510-2 ignition switch)

There I discovered something strange: when I turned the key to "start", the volt on the little terminal showed 9,2V and then slowly started to increase. After approx 15 secs, the volt read 10,5 and didn't go further. (the starter key was held in "Start" position all the time)

Then I made a new wire, and connected it from the terminal of the ignition switch and to the little terminal of the starter relay.
The result was the same: approx 9,2V when the key was turned to "start" and held there. The volt climbed slowly to 10.5 and stopped.

Finally, I took a wire and connected it directly from + on battery to the little terminal on the starter relay, and now the volt read 12,0 right away and stayed there.

Based on these new findings, I'm thinking the fault is within the A-510 ignition switch. It seems to me that 9,2V on the little terminal shows that somewhere from the ignition switch and to the little terminal, there's some resistance who "steals" the volt.
The wire from the ignition switch and the little terminal is short, so I doubt the fault is there.
That leaves me with a faulty 510 ignition switch.

Before ordering a new one, I'm wondering if any of you have some other ideas?

Thanks.

regards Alf Olav
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First RV-7 completed, (bought partly finished from a US-builder) 305 hrs per July 2014, SOLD
Second -7 had first flight Feb 25th 2014. 220 hrs pr July 2019. Life is good!

Last edited by ao.frog : 02-22-2016 at 02:57 PM.
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  #17  
Old 02-22-2016, 05:19 PM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is offline
 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,474
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The ignition switch is the first place I would have looked for trouble. They have a well-deserved reputation for unreliable contacts. If you are feeling a little adventurous, throw out the ACS key switch and go with individual toggle switches for your mags and a push-button for the starter.

By the way, if your ignition switch contacts are bad, be VERY careful because your magneto P-Lead contacts in that same switch body may very well not be making reliable contact. Please be very careful as your ignition may be "live" even with the key removed from the switch.
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  #18  
Old 02-22-2016, 07:14 PM
DennisRhodes DennisRhodes is offline
 
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Location: Taylorsville, Ga
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Dont know about that ignition switch but some are designed to be "push to Start" switch. I know I have one that is designed so that turning the switch to start does not power the starter solenoid. I requires a push on the key to do that. Not sure who the mfg is.
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  #19  
Old 02-22-2016, 07:22 PM
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Weasel Weasel is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael White View Post
People tell me that all the time....
They tell me that my wires don't reach
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  #20  
Old 02-23-2016, 05:33 AM
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TCONROY TCONROY is offline
 
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I had an issue with my ignition switch in which the mags were not grounded in the OFF position (switch was from Spruce, and made by a Spruce affiliate) and they swore up and down their switches NEVER have problems. They got it back and tested it and said it worked fine. I asked, and was sent, a new switch which worked perfectly with no other changes on my end.
I wouldn't trust the quality of those switches
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