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-   -   AOG - Block Island, RI (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=199346)

rcarsey 09-19-2021 09:42 PM

AOG - Block Island, RI
 
Seems me and my CFI are stuck on the island for at least tonight. The #2 fuel pump is dead.. not even the light on the switch is illuminated. Any ideas? (Other than flying with one pump)

Bob Y 09-20-2021 06:36 AM

Either would be a PIA, but maybe do some substitutional trouble shooting and swap the switches or the power connectors at the pumps to see if the problem stays with the pump or moves. Would help zero in on the issue.

rcarsey 09-20-2021 06:50 AM

I don't think there is any power/signal and/or ground getting to the switch. But because of the way the LED lightbulb in the switch is wired in, I believe it's the ground that isn't grounded. That is the only common wire shared between both the switch and the bulb. I think the power circuit from the fuse box to the pump is OK though.

I think the quick fix to get home is to find the power leads to the "broken" pump behind the center channel. Cut them. and tie them into the Red & Black terminals that are located back there. There are fusing issues with this though.

Bob Y 09-20-2021 07:32 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Rob, it looks like wire #6267 is the one common to both the LED and pump power. See attached from the schematic. Could be a bad connection at pin #7 on the HIC connector.

lr172 09-20-2021 08:18 AM

I would bridge a wire from the Pitot heat, landing lights or similar sized (10 amps) source and wire directly to the pump via it's pigtail or pull the supply side wire from the pump switch and bridge there. You can buy some small wire nuts and cutter/stripper at the hardware store to do this. You can put it all back together properly back home after troubleshooting.

Larry

rcarsey 09-21-2021 06:01 PM

The 8-pin connector in Bob Y's last image was the culprit. Although the connector was fully seated and latched, there seemed to be some play in it and lightly touching the wires/connectors would make some of the pins disconnect from the socket in the HIC module. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09ZESkYkpEM

This is particularly alarming because this 8-pin connector is a "jesus bolt". If it is disconnected, or in this case, loose, there is the potential for both fuel pumps to turn off. I've contacted support this morning because I think this might be a safety/design issue.

I'm not sure why it is loose -- could be the plug, socket, pins, or maybe some tension/stress from the wires pulling on the plug, etc.

I've also looked at a few past flights in the Garmin Logbook and charted the Fuel PSI on some randomly picked flights. Apparently this issue has been occurring intermittently since at least Oshkosh 2021. The indication is that the fuel psi would drop about 2 psi instantly and return some minutes later.. which I wouldn't notice in flight. (ie. 46 psi vs 44 psi)

The plan is to replace the ES-60009 HIC module with a ES-60009-1 HIC module (apparently it has a skirt to prevent things from getting underneath the pcb). I'm going to extend the wires with 12&14ga tefzel, solder sleeves -- enough to help avoid the abrupt bend in the wires. Put a new molex connector on and use the TPA (Terminal Position assurance) inserts which help prevent the pins from moving around inside the connector. Depending on how secure/flopping around the wires are, I may secure them further with an adel clamp somewhere.

Piper J3 09-21-2021 06:07 PM

I have looked at the 12iS, and especially the fuel plumbing behind the rear baggage bulkhead, wondering how an old man like me would service something like that.

I guess I’ll be happy with my legacy 12 knowing the spare Bing carb floats and tools I carry with me can save the day and get me home…

PEB 09-26-2021 05:36 AM

6 Attachment(s)
I have had exactly the same problem. It was pin number 8 i the Molex connector ES-60012. Fuel Pump 2 GND.
It was melted in the tip due to poor connection. See first picture.

It happend once when flying and I troubleshooted and found when I pushed the connector slightly to one side the connection was reestablished and when I let go of the connector, there was no connection in the Molex connector.
I then unplugged and plugged the connector a few times and all seemed to work, but a few flighthours later pump nr. 2 stopped again.

Now I did not trust the Molex connector any more and decided to change it to an Automotive connector I knew worked. See pictures.




Quote:

Originally Posted by rcarsey (Post 1557124)
The 8-pin connector in Bob Y's last image was the culprit. Although the connector was fully seated and latched, there seemed to be some play in it and lightly touching the wires/connectors would make some of the pins disconnect from the socket in the HIC module. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09ZESkYkpEM

This is particularly alarming because this 8-pin connector is a "jesus bolt". If it is disconnected, or in this case, loose, there is the potential for both fuel pumps to turn off. I've contacted support this morning because I think this might be a safety/design issue.

I'm not sure why it is loose -- could be the plug, socket, pins, or maybe some tension/stress from the wires pulling on the plug, etc.

I've also looked at a few past flights in the Garmin Logbook and charted the Fuel PSI on some randomly picked flights. Apparently this issue has been occurring intermittently since at least Oshkosh 2021. The indication is that the fuel psi would drop about 2 psi instantly and return some minutes later.. which I wouldn't notice in flight. (ie. 46 psi vs 44 psi)

The plan is to replace the ES-60009 HIC module with a ES-60009-1 HIC module (apparently it has a skirt to prevent things from getting underneath the pcb). I'm going to extend the wires with 12&14ga tefzel, solder sleeves -- enough to help avoid the abrupt bend in the wires. Put a new molex connector on and use the TPA (Terminal Position assurance) inserts which help prevent the pins from moving around inside the connector. Depending on how secure/flopping around the wires are, I may secure them further with an adel clamp somewhere.


jrtens 09-26-2021 02:41 PM

Rob, thanks for the explanation and the video.

rv9builder 09-26-2021 03:02 PM

Rob and PEB,

Did you contact Van's about this? If so, what were their thoughts or suggestions?


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