VAF Forums

VAF Forums (https://vansairforce.net/community/index.php)
-   RV General Discussion/News (https://vansairforce.net/community/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Are you inadvertently voiding your insurance policy? (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=137231)

rolivi 04-28-2016 04:49 PM

Bob makes good sense, otherwise I won't be able to do my IFR checkride in my own plane. I presume the DPE is going to ask me to wear the foggles for a while. ;)

RV Wannabe 04-28-2016 05:04 PM

My ADD goes into overtime when people refer to BFR's in the present tense since they have not existed for a couple of years....

It's a flight review. Yes, it is done on a biennial basis, for whatever the reason they changed in the FAR's and is no longer a BFR. Just a plain ole flight review.

Sorry, rant over.
Mark

BobTurner 04-28-2016 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolivi (Post 1074560)
Bob makes good sense, otherwise I won't be able to do my IFR checkride in my own plane. I presume the DPE is going to ask me to wear the foggles for a while. ;)

Per FAA policy and FAR 61.47 a DPE is never to act as The PIC, except by prior arrangement. This even applies to student pilots taking their checkride, 61.47 provides an exception to the 'no passengers' rule.

BobTurner 04-28-2016 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV Wannabe (Post 1074563)
My ADD goes into overtime when people refer to BFR's in the present tense since they have not existed for a couple of years....

It's a flight review. Yes, it is done on a biennial basis, for whatever the reason they changed in the FAR's and is no longer a BFR. Just a plain ole flight review.

Sorry, rant over.
Mark

Yes, I know. But 'FR' doesn't have the same ring as 'BFR'. How about a new movement, 'bFR', so biennial is an adjective, not part of the formal name?

rolivi 04-29-2016 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTurner (Post 1074582)
Per FAA policy and FAR 61.47 a DPE is never to act as The PIC, except by prior arrangement. This even applies to student pilots taking their checkride, 61.47 provides an exception to the 'no passengers' rule.

Interesting. So on the IFR ride the DPE is basically a safety pilot?

Does that mean the IFR checkride must be done in VMC?

rleffler 04-29-2016 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTurner (Post 1074548)
Where did you get such an idea? You can fly under the hood with a non-instrument rated private pilot as safety pilot. If you are responsible for the safe and legal operation of the airplane, you are PIC. Of course you must be current wrt BFR, and may not enter actual imc unless instrument current.

Like you said......

may not enter actual imc unless instrument current

I wasn't at the time.

Auburntsts 04-29-2016 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolivi (Post 1074662)
Interesting. So on the IFR ride the DPE is basically a safety pilot?

Does that mean the IFR checkride must be done in VMC?

Yes unless the DPE agrees, in advance, to act as PIC for those portions of the flight in IMC. That's because until you pass the check ride and earn the rating, you can't act as PIC in IMC.

Bill Boyd 04-29-2016 07:55 AM

A hypothetical:
 
A good and generous friend who owns an RV of a type for which I require transition training - for insurance coverage prior to first flight in my own plane - offers to familiarize me with the aircraft over several hours of dual instruction time under the usual, allowable noncommercial cost sharing arrangements of pax (me) paying half the fuel bill, nothing more. He is a CFI. No special arrangements have been made with his insurance carrier to have anyone listed as a named pilot besides himself, nor for commercial instruction in his aircraft. We fly together for the required, enjoyable hours.

Conclusion A: all goes well, and we sit down after and he fills out my logbook with the appropriate notations for a familiarization flight/PIC time (for me) in make & model.

Conclusion B: a mishap occurs, he was the PIC, he had a passenger in the front seat, "(you heard it hit the hull), and I... was never here..." /James Earl Jones/
"Who, us? We were just up sight seeing in this wonderful aircraft and he let me feel the controls out a bit." No logbook entry occurs, transition training experience requirement is not satisfied that day. I pay him my share of the gas money. Insurance is in force as usual. Or is it? Problems with this scenario? It probably takes place all the time.

-Stormy

BobTurner 04-29-2016 09:37 AM

Bill,
You're asking what happens if you lie. I can only speculate that it depends on how the insurance company wants to spend its money. Possible answers:
Pay him and forget about it.
Pay him but jack up his rate at renewal. Tell other insurance companies why (there are only a few) so no one will insure him.
Hire investigators to try to discredit your story.
Look at their records to see if he has done transition training before. If so forward the info to the FAA if he does not have a LODA. If he does, use that against him.
Refuse coverage, using your own words, that this was a sightseeing flight for hire (the 'share the expenses' rule only applies when the flight was incidental transportation, e.g, you were going somewhere. Otherwise the commercial FARs apply).
etc.

BobTurner 04-29-2016 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rleffler (Post 1074666)
Like you said......

may not enter actual imc unless instrument current

I wasn't at the time.

Okay, so the issue was not wearing a hood, but rather operating in actual IMC.
This is a real issue for cfii's. The owner's airplane is usually covered via the open pilot clause but under such clauses the insurance company reserves the right to sue the cfii. Some policies specifically will cover instructors, some do not. Just another risk to bear for the privilge of instructing.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:17 AM.