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Alcohol poisoning

Lars

Well Known Member
Sponsor
This isn't exactly RV-related, hence this forum. But hopefully it will help someone...

Recently I had a fuel starvation issue with my old Ford Bronco. Like our RVs, it has dual tanks, with a switching valve- electric, in this case, because it's fuel injected, though the latter isn't relevant here. Accelerating away from a stop, it felt like it was running out of gas. I pulled to the side of the road, switched tanks, the engine re-lit and I drove home. I removed the cheap steel filter that I had installed in-line between the main tank (the one that was starving the engine) and the fuel selector valve. When I got it off, it rattled. Cut it open with a hacksaw and found that it had fallen apart internally. The adhesive bonding the filter element to the inside of the can had turned to a soft rubbery goop. I blew air backward through the selector valve and a glob of goop shot out, revealing what the problem was.

Later I went to the parts store in search of another similar filter (made, or marketed by, Mr Gasket in this case) and noted that the filters are now labeled as unsuitable for E85. Clearly they are unsuitable for any fuel that's laced with alcohol, as all mogas in California is these days. Needless to say, I'm not going to run one of these filters anymore.

RV relevance: I have seen this type of filter on a few RVs in the past. I've seen cautions, I believe from Mel and/or Walt, to not run this type of filter on our aircraft. Probably good advice in general. And if you run mogas in your RV, you really don't want to run one.

Here's a crappy iphone photo of the filter, after I cut it open. Some bits of goopy rubber are barely visible at lower left.

i-Zxs4dPJ-X2.jpg


Here's a generic photo lifted from the internet, of what it looked like new, for reference:

i-d9wBLDz-X3.jpg
 
Your old bronco was not built with ethanol in mind. The goops of goo you refer to in the filter may likely be parts of the fuel line, or fuel level float that have decayed and separated because of the alcohol. The filter was doing its job keeping the goop out, till it too was attacked and became loose in its housing. I would continue to run a filter (maybe not that specific one) in an older vehicle, it is easier to replace than rebuilding a carb because it is clogged with the same goop.

Shutting down your engine in a ground vehicle is a nuisance, certainly a larger problem in an aircraft. Hopefully those that run ethanol in their planes understand the level of education required to do so safely. (relative term, understanding that some will have the opinion that any use of ethanol in an aircraft is unsafe).

I come from an Indiana farm family that has benefitted economically from ethanol production. With that said, I hate the stuff and avoid purchasing it when possible.

Mark
 
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Actually my Bronco is built (or, rather rebuilt- it was my big project before constructing the RV) with ethanol-compliant hardware these days. See underhood photo below. Very much not stock, though all the parts (except said filter) are late model stuff from Ford. Floats are brass. Fuel lines are modern, EFI rated hose, etc. The rubbery material I found in the fuel selector valve was precisely the same stuff as the decomposed adhesive in the filter.

i-P4ZWDNB-L.jpg
 
Interesting. Guess the filter really is a piece of junk.

Also kind shows that all it takes is one domino in a chain.

Still hate ethanol.
Mark
 
Bronco

Beautiful install Lars. It looks better than anything the factory did. I was hoping to do a similar thing to my CJ some day but doubt it will look that nice.
 
Beautiful install Lars. It looks better than anything the factory did. I was hoping to do a similar thing to my CJ some day but doubt it will look that nice.

Thanks for the kind words!

To keep it RV-relevant, here's a shot of me with my favorite passenger:

i-Kzm38Jg-S.jpg
 
Shucks, I thought this thread was going to have stories about Navy ship visits to Hong Kong.
 
Good post and a reminder to folks that anything other than a high quality filter with a stainless steel screen should be not be used in an aircraft fuel system. Just say no to Autozone parts!
 
Thread moved

Lars, this information is too valuable to be in "Test", so I have moved it to the "Close calls/Lesson learned" forum.

Thanks for sharing, glad you found the problem before it caused something really bad:eek:

ColoCardinal, your CJ needs a Chevy 4.3:D
 
Recommended replacement?

Any particular one that makes a good replacement. I see aircraft spruce has a clear glass one with what looks like a plastic screen that is replaceable.

My Rv6a has a filter on each line coming from the tanks before the selector valve. I've just been replacing them at annual. The clear filter would allow a visual inspection.

I dont want to do away with them. If something were to plug up a filter it would only take out one tank. . . . not plug my valve or the strainer/ filter that feeds the carb.
 
Any particular one that makes a good replacement. I see aircraft spruce has a clear glass one with what looks like a plastic screen that is replaceable.

My Rv6a has a filter on each line coming from the tanks before the selector valve. I've just been replacing them at annual. The clear filter would allow a visual inspection.

I dont want to do away with them. If something were to plug up a filter it would only take out one tank. . . . not plug my valve or the strainer/ filter that feeds the carb.

Flow Ezy makes some good units, I've been using and have installed a few of the 3000 series, they also have a 2000 series that is a little smaller that would also be good.
http://flowezyfilters.freestarter.com/
 
this is the unit that I used and recommend it highly.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-230101/overview/

robert burns
RV-4 N82RB

What is the construction? Summit says for gasoline only. Probably fine for most of us, but maybe not if someone's using alcohol-laced mogas. Stainless steel screen is fine, but if it's bonded in place with an adhesive that degrades in alcohol, then it's as bad as the P0S Mr. Gasket filter I cut up.

The filters Walt linked have an option for Viton o-rings, which I consider a good idea for almost any seal on an airplane- Viton is impervious to just about any fluid we use, be it avgas, mogas, alcohol, glycol brake fluid (DOT 4, etc). Summit doesn't specify what they use on that filter, but I'm betting it's nitrile, which would explain the "gasoline only" caution. Nitrile doesn't like ethanol.

Probably a good thing, since really it's better in beer, or a shaken-not-stirred martini...
 
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