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input please on the AP-1 Navaid autopilot

taverroi

taverroi

Well Known Member
Ok, so, I have an Rv6A. It is equiped with an AP-1 Navaid AP and I just dont know weather to leave it alone or upgrade it.

I am an AP kinda guy but do not do IFR any longer, though I am IFR rated. I know it has a wing leveler and a traking function, but is it stable? Can it be trusted? Can I fly with it confidently? And does this auto pilot follow a flight plan in my GX-65 with several way points or do I have to make an input action for it to trac at each indivudual leg?

Some input that I'm getting is that its junk. Is it really? It seems to have operated just fine during the pre-inspection flight.

Any users out there with good or bad reviews would be great to hear from and get your perspectives.

Upgrade or not, this is the question. Is it really worth spending the money or will and can this one serfice?

Tango
 
I have one and use it IFR.

It is reliable but suffers some idiosyncrasies one should be aware of:
- will drift right or left of course then correct after getting too far off
- when tracking a GPS one must occasionally adjust trim to limit above drift
- when initially turned on it usually will significantly bank
- when turned on you can limit above bank by quickly adjusting trim (for tracking GPS) or turn (for wing leveling)
- trim is for TK and turn is for WL
- it will require turn adjustment every 0.5-1 minute or so when using WL
- TK works well once turned on - only requiring occasional trim adjustment

I would leave it alone and get some time behind it for a while. I hardly ever use mine for WL. I use it on almost every flight coupled to GPS for TK where it works fairly well - especially if just for VFR.

Anyone know if its servos may be used in an upgrade to a newer more capable autopilot?
 
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taverroi said:
Ok, so, I have an Rv6A. It is equiped with an AP-1 Navaid AP and I just dont know weather to leave it alone or upgrade it.

I am an AP kinda guy but do not do IFR any longer, though I am IFR rated. I know it has a wing leveler and a traking function, but is it stable? Can it be trusted? Can I fly with it confidently? And does this auto pilot follow a flight plan in my GX-65 with several way points or do I have to make an input action for it to trac at each indivudual leg?

Some input that I'm getting is that its junk. Is it really? It seems to have operated just fine during the pre-inspection flight.

Any users out there with good or bad reviews would be great to hear from and get your perspectives.

Upgrade or not, this is the question. Is it really worth spending the money or will and can this one serfice?

Tango
Click to expand...

FORANE said:
Anyone know if its servos may be used in an upgrade to a newer more capable autopilot?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. A healthy Navaid servo works great with the Trio EZ-Pilot:

http://www.trioavionics.com/ez_pilot.htm

The EZ-Pilot feature set is far more advanced than the Navaid and works flawlessly with no twiddling required. Trio offers superb support for their products and a conversion harness for plug-play with the Navaid servo. I'm still flying my 13 year-old Navaid servo with the Trio Pro Pilot.

My observations from several years ago when the original Trio upgrade occurred:

http://thervjournal.com/EZ_Pilot.htm
 
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FORANE said:
I have one and use it IFR.

It is reliable but suffers some idiosyncrasies one should be aware of:
- will drift right or left of course then correct after getting too far off
- when tracking a GPS one must occasionally adjust trim to limit above drift
- when initially turned on it usually will significantly bank
- when turned on you can limit above bank by quickly adjusting trim (for tracking GPS) or turn (for wing leveling)
- trim is for TK and turn is for WL
- it will require turn adjustment every 0.5-1 minute or so when using WL
- TK works well once turned on - only requiring occasional trim adjustment

I would leave it alone and get some time behind it for a while. I hardly ever use mine for WL. I use it on almost every flight coupled to GPS for TK where it works fairly well - especially if just for VFR.

Anyone know if its servos may be used in an upgrade to a newer more capable autopilot?
Click to expand...

Good advise. And thats some sweet bullet items! I've printed it down and will use them to help me navigate the use of it for a little while.
 
I have the autopilot in my 8A and have not had any issues in 400+ hours. I would recommend trying it for a while and see how it works for you.

One item i learned early on is that if you push / bend the internal gears together at each annual, the unit works better. This was a recommendation from their tech support when the unit worked poorly initially.

When the gears get loose, you get a slight wander as you fly. With the gears tight, i never need to adjust in wl mode, and it tracks my gps kmd150 perfectly on multiple leg flight plans. I have flown many 500+ mile legs without ever touching the autopilot.

One other note ... I can't remember if it is the trim or turn knob, but this can be used to set an offset from the gps course. If you don't want the offset, just find the setting that gives you no offset and leave the knob there.
 
AaronG said:
I have the autopilot in my 8A and have not had any issues in 400+ hours. I would recommend trying it for a while and see how it works for you.

One item i learned early on is that if you push / bend the internal gears together at each annual, the unit works better. This was a recommendation from their tech support when the unit worked poorly initially.

When the gears get loose, you get a slight wander as you fly. With the gears tight, i never need to adjust in wl mode, and it tracks my gps kmd150 perfectly on multiple leg flight plans. I have flown many 500+ mile legs without ever touching the autopilot.

One other note ... I can't remember if it is the trim or turn knob, but this can be used to set an offset from the gps course. If you don't want the offset, just find the setting that gives you no offset and leave the knob there.
Click to expand...

Thanks man. I cant tell you how much I apprieciate all this guys. I'm feeling pretty good about all this. I think its a keeper.
 
I keep saying I will upgrade to Trio when it goes crazy on me, but after 6 years and 450 hours, it keeps on working. Just a VFR aide to me, no IFR.
 
+1 on what others have said, I flew 800 hrs with one in an RV-4 with no issues other than those previously posted... it would roll when I hit transmitted etc. I flew lots of IFR with mine and it worked fine. For VFR it is plenty good and a nice little autopilot.

And I agree with others, When it dies you can upgrade to a Trio... I added a TT alt module to mine and that was slick too, no issues with the combo....

Doug Rozendaal
F1 EVO
 
B25Flyer said:
+1 on what others have said, I flew 800 hrs with one in an RV-4 with no issues other than those previously posted... it would roll when I hit transmitted etc. I flew lots of IFR with mine and it worked fine. For VFR it is plenty good and a nice little autopilot.

And I agree with others, When it dies you can upgrade to a Trio... I added a TT alt module to mine and that was slick too, no issues with the combo....

Doug Rozendaal
F1 EVO
Click to expand...

Can you tell me more about this TT alt module and where I can get one for mine. My 6A is not equiped with alt hold at this time and I would love for it to have it. Is it an expensive or difficult upgrade?
 
taverroi said:
Can you tell me more about this TT alt module and where I can get one for mine. My 6A is not equiped with alt hold at this time and I would love for it to have it. Is it an expensive or difficult upgrade?
Click to expand...

I added the Altrac to my plane; it only had the navaid when I bought it.

http://www.aircraftextras.com/PDF-files/Altrak Install & User Guide.pdf

It works fairly well, well enough for vfr at least. It is a very basic one button altitude hold only. Mine will occasionally get off altitude as much as a couple hundred feet but those occurrence are rare. Typically it will hold altitude within 50 feet +or-.
 
FORANE said:
I added the Altrac to my plane; it only had the navaid when I bought it.

http://www.aircraftextras.com/PDF-files/Altrak Install & User Guide.pdf

It works fairly well, well enough for vfr at least. It is a very basic one button altitude hold only. Mine will occasionally get off altitude as much as a couple hundred feet but those occurrence are rare. Typically it will hold altitude within 50 feet +or-.
Click to expand...

I'm on it!.
Does it get any better than this. The help on this forum is amazing.
 
FORANE said:
- when initially turned on it usually will significantly bank
Click to expand...

Here's a little tip that I picked up from the factory (back when they were still around) to avoid that. After selecting course or heading mode, wait about 5 seconds before engaging the unit. I found this eliminates (mostly) the swift bank that can occur. I guess it takes a bit for the tubes to warm up inside, or something...

+1 on the Altrak also. I retrofitted mine to an existing airplane and it wasn't a big job. Mine holds altitude generally to within 10 feet, so if yours wanders 50 feet I'd look into that with the factory.
 
taverroi said:
Can you tell me more about this TT alt module and where I can get one for mine. My 6A is not equiped with alt hold at this time and I would love for it to have it. Is it an expensive or difficult upgrade?
Click to expand...

Trutrack sells an altitude hold module with a one button control which works great, inexpensive, and easy to install... It can be added on to any airplane regardless of the lateral AP... And if you upgrade to a digiflight, they will give you credit for the programer and you keep the servo.. Not really a downside...

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
F-1 EVO
 
To have the navaid track our GX-60, we changed the sensitivity on the gps to 1.0 mile full deflection. That keeps us closer to the track. We use it with the flight plan function in the gps. I don't have the gps steering capability with the navaid, but the gps alerts me to the turn and new track before the fix. I turn the ap off or use wl for the turn, then reengage the tk mode for the new leg. 600+ hours and 5 times coast to coast. Like you, no alt hold, but maybe some day.
 
taverroi said:
Can you tell me more about this TT alt module and where I can get one for mine. My 6A is not equiped with alt hold at this time and I would love for it to have it. Is it an expensive or difficult upgrade?
Click to expand...

One more option for a pitch autopilot:

http://www.trioavionics.com/alt_hold.htm

This one will not only hold altitude, but will climb or descend at a set rate or speed and then capture a preset altitude. About the same price as the TruTrak single function altitude hold device.

I've flown the Trio EZ-Hold and it works as advertised. No, I do not get a commission from Trio. ;)

I've also flown the TruTrak device, details here).
 
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FORANE said:
I added the Altrac to my plane; it only had the navaid when I bought it.

http://www.aircraftextras.com/PDF-files/Altrak Install & User Guide.pdf

It works fairly well, well enough for vfr at least. It is a very basic one button altitude hold only. Mine will occasionally get off altitude as much as a couple hundred feet but those occurrence are rare. Typically it will hold altitude within 50 feet +or-.
Click to expand...

+/- 50 ft is actually not good enough. Give me a call or send me a PM with your aircraft details and where you have the activity wired. +/- 10 ft is where it should be. Thanks!
 
My Experience with Navaid

I used a Navaid with my Apollo GX and Nav122 for 9 years and 1500+ hours. They are a great combo. It worked well in both IMC and VMC.

One thing that the Navaid will do that NONE of the digital autopilots costing less than $7K do is track a Localizer or VOR from from an analog VOR/ILS receiver.

Here are some observations:

http://www.fdatasystems.com/chuck/autopilot.html

I have subsequently upgraded to an AFS pilot (TruTrak) for additional capability.
 
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A few years ago a friend of mine gave me a Navaid control head with the built-in smart coupler when he upgraded to a Trio. I waited a few months and a servo was posted on the classifieds for $200. So I had a whopping $200 in the whole deal. They work just fine once you understand how to deal with some minor quirks. I got another Navaid (again for free, the good friends I have) and found a servo on ebay for $150 and have that in my Rocket. Huge outlay of cash! Recently when Trio dropped the prices on the Pro Pilot I have been considering upgrading as I do have a Trio servo on the shelf. But I am a little turned off by the fact that the Pro Pilot won't couple to my INS-422 so I can fly a localizer, but the Navaid can with a switch and some wiring. I've pretty much concluded that it really isn't that big of a deal to couple to not be able to couple to a VOR since all of the approach waypoints can be dialed in via the 396...you just have to manually create a flight plan to do it.
 
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