Superior Engine news-XP-400

from ANN this morning-



Superior Air Parts Announces The 210 Horsepower XP-400 Engine

Newest Addition To Popular Family Of Sport Aviation Engines
Superior Air Parts, a division of Thielert AG, announced that it is expanding its popular XP sport aviation engine series with the introduction of the new 210 horsepower, 400 cubic inch XP-400 Engine.

?The development and introduction of the new XP-400 Engine is in direct response to requests from our sport aviation aircraft customers,? explained Keith Blockus, Superior?s Senior Director of Engineering and Product Development.

?Everyone loves the advanced features and performance of the XP-360, but they just wanted more power. And everyone knows, there?s no replacement for displacement.?

?The XP-400 is similar to a bored and stroked XP-360, but it has angle-valve cylinders with bigger valves for better breathing and more fin area for better cooling,? he explained.

?The XP-400 has an eighth-inch larger bore and a quarter-inch longer stroke. The compression ratio is 8.5:1 at 210 horsepower so it will be approved to run on 91 Octane auto fuel. We are also working on a higher compression version that will run on 100 LL Avgas for racing and high-performance applications.?

Blockus stressed that the XP-400 features all of Superior?s industry-leading engine design and manufacturing advancements including a counter-weighted version of the recently introduced proprietary ESR (Electro Slag Remelt) crankshaft.

?The XP-400 Engine utilizes all of the proven components that are used on the XP-360 including roller lifters and camshafts,? Blockus added. ?The XP-400 is an all-new engine design that delivers a number of design and performance advancements when compared to older-generation OEM engines.?

The XP-400 Engine is currently undergoing testing at the company?s engine development facility prior to becoming available to the sport aviation market, which Blockus expects to happen in time for this year?s AirVenture Oshkosh.

?We are currently taking deposits for the XP-400 and we will be shipping engines by the end of this summer,? he said.



As with the XP-360 (shown above), owners will also be able to build their new XP-400 Engines themselves at Superior?s popular Engine Build Schools held at their Dallas headquarters.

Technical Data
Model: XP-400 Engine
Horsepower: 210
Displacement: 400 cubic inches
Number of cylinders: 4
Maximum RPM: 2,700
Bore x Stroke: 5.25? x 4.625?
Compression Ratio: 8.5:1
Fuel: Avgas and 91 Octane Unleaded Auto Fuel
Weight: 294 to 305 lbs. (Depending on model)

Superior Air Parts recently became a division of Thielert AG of Germany, and is the manufacturer of the new FAA certified Vantage Engine. The company is also the world?s leading manufacturer of FAA approved aftermarket cylinders and replacement parts for Lycoming and Continental aircraft engines. In addition, the company manufacturers the XP-360 Engine family for experimental and sport aircraft builders.

No price?

The price is conveniently not available.

I'm getting concerned about the hunt for more power. I'm convinced we are not far away from having an RV shed parts because of this quest for more power.

Until the plane is engineered for 200+ hp I think it is prudent to stick with the manufacturers recommendations.

cjensen said:

...and more fin area for better cooling...

Click to expand...

I wonder if that makes the baffles DIY.

Wonder what the fuel burn rates will be.

Io-390

I've got an IO-390 in my -7. The engine has been run, done the weight and balance, and just finishing up some loose odds and ends before having the DAR come over.

I can't provide any details about how it runs in the air, but was thinking about posting a web site detailing my experieince with installing this engine (been too busy building the plane). Any interest out there in an IO-390 website?

It's overall pretty straightforwrad, but there are plenty of minor mods you have to make. Baffling is probably the most egregious!

Marc

MCA said:

I can't provide any details about how it runs in the air, but was thinking about posting a web site detailing my experieince with installing this engine (been too busy building the plane). Any interest out there in an IO-390 website?

Click to expand...

On behalf of everybody who's thinking about putting an IO-390 - YES PLEASE!!!

mcb

"Second That Emotion!"

I have an I0-390 on order, with delivery in May, so I would be very interested in shortening the learning curve on installation.

TAS
Terry
RV-7, finnish kit.

MCA said:

Any interest out there in an IO-390 website?

Click to expand...

uh, of course!

MCA, I am VERY interested in your 390 project!

I believe the 10 hoss difference is negligible as there are already MANY guys with 360's in their RV's in that range.

This just makes it a more tame/less fickle package due to lower compression ratios.

I am all over this stuff!

CJ

They just had to go make it a 400...



I like it

As for Rv's shedding parts from to much horsepush. Hasn't happened yet, even with quite a few Super-8's, a super-6 and a couple super-7's flying with 230-260+HP, so I'm not worried. But then, I've always thought that the majority of this TAS VNE stuff was Vans worrying too much... Lets not go there again.

To me, it is flutter that is the critical issue.

Caveat... I aren't a en-gah-near, but from what I gather this is where the airframe meets it's design limitations.

My real reason for wanting the hosses is for climb and short field performance. I just LOVE the rush of acceleration!

The way I see it, if I don't tempt fate and play in the twilight of flutter scenarios, I should be around to tell you how it all works for a long time!

How far off am I? I don't think too far off...

CJ

Marc - IO-390/400

Any pictures, notes and (in the near future) performance would be greatly appreciated. The 390 just seems like a perfect alternative to the high comp IO-360, without the negs!
I've got a good ways to go yet, but getting close enough to nail this thing down

Estimated Fuel Burn

AX-O said:

Wonder what the fuel burn rates will be.

Click to expand...

Trivial to calculate, as engines are engine are engines...

They claim 210hp max, .45 BSFC. That translates to 11.8 gal/hr @75% and 9.5 gal/hr @ 60%. But the 60% rate will still have all the power of an O-360 (180hp) @ 80% power.

Because they are going low compression, these numbers may be a little worse. like 12.5 and 10.5... But they are definatley within a gph.

So you do have the option of using lower power settings to cruise like an O-360 at the higher power settings, but who will do that?

-Bruce

I know that everybody is going to disagree with me on this, but, Van designed these airplanes to be light weight fun airplanes. Mine -6 weighs 1009 lbs. with a 3-blade Catto prop. Most airplanes that I now inspect with the constant speed props, autopilots and full instrument panels weigh over 1100 lbs. If you guys will seek out and fly an RV that weighs around 1000 lbs. you will be shocked at how much better they fly.
Mel...DAR

BruceMe said:

So you do have the option of using lower power settings to cruise like an O-360 at the higher power settings, but who will do that?

-Bruce

Click to expand...

We do that routinely using the IO-540's otherwise the fuel burn will put you in the poor house. It's nice to have the acceleration and power at takeoff but I quickly throttle back to around 22 square to keep the fuel burn around 10 to 12 GPH. I would think that the extra horsepower would allow you to fly faster and more economically at higher altitudes.

Weight in an 8

My biggest concern is weight. I am building an 8 and I?m a healthy boy?6?-5? at 250 pounds. I?ve already made the decision to put the battery in the back and anything else I can safely relocate. I don?t want to have to carry a lot of ballast to allow the nose to be held up on solo final.

In discussions with others they suggest (I know everyone has an opinion and are usually quick to share them but I see the logic in this) the IO-360 that is 30-35? pounds lighter than the angle valve, 200-HP model with some enhancements. They have said that top end speed is about the same. I?m not sure about climb out performance.

I am still gathering information to allow a more detail oriented decision but I think this is the way I?m going. I can?t afford additional 30 or more pounds on the front end.

I also totally agree with Mel?s statement. In any type of performance machine weight is critical. At some point removing small amounts of weight will do more for performance than adding a couple of horsepower.

I know I?ll get slammed by those with endless budgets that thing money doesn?t factor into the decision but I also must consider the impact that it may have on both initial purchase price and INSURANCE. The way insurance is skyrocketing (one of the few things that can out climb and RV ) I don?t think I want to give them any reasons to jack up the price.

Donald
8 ? Empennage underway
N-284DP (Reserved)

Mel said:

I know that everybody is going to disagree with me on this, but, Van designed these airplanes to be light weight fun airplanes. Mine -6 weighs 1009 lbs. with a 3-blade Catto prop. Most airplanes that I now inspect with the constant speed props, autopilots and full instrument panels weigh over 1100 lbs. If you guys will seek out and fly an RV that weighs around 1000 lbs. you will be shocked at how much better they fly.
Mel...DAR

Click to expand...

For the record... My -4 is Day/Night VFR, 320 powered, no vacuum, nice light wood prop... I haven't weighed it yet, but I'm shooting for mid 900's unpainted. Just the way Van wanted it

-Bruce

IO-390 Web Site

Well, it looks like there is some interest in a -390 web site. I'll probably get something up in the next few months.. for now I want to get the plane flying.

And... I promise to show data only from my build experieince. I don't want to get in the middle of weight, horsepower, fuel burn, etc. discussions!

Marc

Mel said:

I know that everybody is going to disagree with me on this, but, Van designed these airplanes to be light weight fun airplanes. Mine -6 weighs 1009 lbs. with a 3-blade Catto prop. Most airplanes that I now inspect with the constant speed props, autopilots and full instrument panels weigh over 1100 lbs. If you guys will seek out and fly an RV that weighs around 1000 lbs. you will be shocked at how much better they fly.
Mel...DAR

Click to expand...

I agree that it would be a lot more of a FUN airplane, however, I'm building the RV to be a traveling machine, therefore 180/CS is a minimum for me, as well as full IFR capiblity. = at least 100LB heaver than ideal.

osxuser said:

however, I'm building the RV to be a traveling machine

Click to expand...

Hmm. Just curious why you're not considering a 9 instead of a 7? The 9 seems more like a traveling machine.

If I were doing an -8, I would go with a nice Para valve 180 hp + engine. It works out better CG-wise.

Jeff, I am curious why you think the -9 is a better travelling machine? The -7 will cover more ground faster. Put an autopilot in any travelling machine and the -7 makes a better platform.

CJ

IO-390 price

I'm budgeting (?) for an engine purchase late next year and just received a quote on the 390, including the latest price increase. Includes Slick mags, AFP fuel, Christen invert oil, Skytec starter, etc........$35K plus change I had printed a note from the forum earlier this year where the same setup was going for just under 30K. Oh well.
Marc, do you mind stating what you paid for your 390?

Thanks

sprucemoose said:

Hmm. Just curious why you're not considering a 9 instead of a 7? The 9 seems more like a traveling machine.

Click to expand...

I did CONSIDER a 9, but I figure it this way:

Either way I'll have a 2-axis autopilot
I want to run 180+hp so the -9 doesn't support that engine
The -7 is faster
if I'm spending the money, the -7 can do light acro, not something i'd mind...
the -7 is worth more when I go to sell...

So, thats why I've got a -7 (which I guess is partly -9) tail sitting in the hanger... I need to change my sig to building -7 tail... finally started some real work on it .

Captain_John said:

Jeff, I am curious why you think the -9 is a better travelling machine?

Click to expand...

I meant that it's designed to be more stable, less responsive, typically qualities associated with cross country flying as opposed to "sport" flying.

Bill,

It seems there was just a price increase. The current prices are posted at http://www.aerosportpower.com/Prices.htm which is where I got the engine. I paid a few grand less, and ordered it right after OSH last year. I am told there are now five different shops that make/sell the -390 from Lycoming parts kit.

Incredibly, it is about $3,400 CHEAPER than the IO-360-A1B6. Go figure. If I was Lycoming, I'd price by horsepower.

SMoose, I unserstand... I guess that I am biased...



MCA... How does it sound!?! DOes it sound different than a 360? Deeper? Louder? Does it go BRAP BRAP BRAP!?!

CJ

The 390 is cheaper than an A1B6 because it isn't certified.

IO 390 fuel burn

I have an 8 with the IO 390 and has around 900 hours on it. Last year I went with Rosie's group to the West Indies and one of the planes in my group was a 9 with a 0 320 I burned less fuel at every fuel stop than he did. I was pulled back and LOP.

Nearly 10 year resurrection on this thread...