NEW AD - Lyc 360 engines

Anything new, reman'd, etc since 1999 seems to be effected. And not a cheap proposition either.

I found the AD info on www.aero-news.net

Looks like most of the Lyc 360 models are effected.

Sorry Doug

Thanks Doug for moving this. I posted it in the "general" forum because it was an AD. I debated putting it in the engine section, but some people use XML readers, etc and don't watch all the forums. I'll know for next time. Perhaps there should be some kind of "Notice/AD" type specific forum so people can just check on recent critical developments? SB, AD's, etc.?

I suspect this has wide application to the RV community, actually the entire Kit community. The IO-360 A1B6, that Van's, lancair, etc sells, is effected I believe.

Interesting A.D. : DON'T PANIC!

I took the time to go to the FAA site and read the AD, and found that there is actually a fairly small subset of O-360's affected (if I read the table correctly).

O?360?A1F6
O?360?A1F6D
O?360?A1G6D
O?360?A1H6
O?360?E1A6D
O?360?F1A6

Does anyone know what is common to these engines that isn't applicable to all the rest?

Fortunately, my TMX-360 was built with all ECI components, so while I cringe and sympathize when I read these kinds of notes, I generally don't have to worry, since Lycoming didn't build my parts....(I know - every dog has their day - ours will come...)

Paul

FYI: This particular AD affects 300 engines. To pu it in perspective, even if every one of them was in an RV, that's about 8% of the fleet, and everyone one of them isn't in an RV.

Yes but!

jcoloccia said:

FYI: This particular AD affects 300 engines. To pu it in perspective, even if every one of them was in an RV, that's about 8% of the fleet, and everyone one of them isn't in an RV.

Click to expand...

Unless I read the AD wrong, it's *all* (there are some serial numbers listed in the Lyc SB) the engines listed that have been built since the date in 1999. That means anyone that has purchased a new engine from Vans', or whomever since that date, needs to check their build date and may be effected.

This AD applies to Lycoming Engines AEIO-360, IO-360, O-360, LIO-360, and LO-360 series reciprocating engines, manufactured new or rebuilt, overhauled, or that had a crankshaft installed after March 1, 1999.

Click to expand...

You number comparison gives the wrong message. A better one would be, "how many *new lycoming* engines of the models noted has vans sold since 1999? *all of those are effected*.

the article i read said 282 engines were affected:

Big Airworthiness Directive Hits Lycoming Owners

Fri, 24 Mar '06
Lycoming 360-Series Engines Affected

We knew it was coming... and it looks like it's here: a massive new Airworthiness Directive, affecting nearly 300 Lycoming 360-series engines, installed on a variety of single-and-twin-engine aircraft.

The AD, which requires owners to install new crankshafts in the affected engines, comes after a crankshaft failure was reported on a Lycoming LO?360. The directive, issued Thursday, also affects owners of AEIO?360, IO?360, O?360, and LIO?360 series reciprocating engines -- in all, an estimated 282 engines.

The FAA estimates each engine will need approximately 85 hours of labor to replace -- which, including parts and factoring labor costs of $65 per hour, amounts to total costs of about $15,300 per engine.

The FAA says it will cost US flyers more than $5.8 million to comply with the new AD.

Some better news, though -- the FAA also states Lycoming has said it intends to supply the new parts at no charge -- and will reimburse labor costs for engine removal and reinstallation "when authorized."

That should save pilots some lot of money -- and we certainly hope so, as this may be just the first in a series of new ADs affecting Lycoming owners.

does not affect clones with no lyc parts.

Let's make this simple

As I read the AD...

a) if you engine is one of the ones listed *and* it was new, reman'ed, overhauled, etc (with lycoming parts) since the 1999 date

*and*

b) the engine serial number matches the listed Lycoming SB *and* the crank serial number matches

You need to comply with the AD.

So, the logic tree is as follows.

IF
your engine is new, reman'ed, overhauled etc, since the 1999 date *and* one of the models listed

THEN
you need to check the serial number tables for the engine *and the *crankshaft* to determine application

ELSE
this doesn't apply

I'm fairly certain that all the crankshaft woes are gonna generate a class action suit, so it would be prudent (of course safe) to follow the bouncing ball and determine applicablity.

As the AD says -

We are issuing this AD to prevent failure of the crankshaft, which could result in total engine power loss, in-flight engine failure, and possible loss of the aircraft.

Click to expand...

Please be advised that this AD 2006-06-16 is only on counterweighted crankshafts!!! The only engines that, I know off, that Vans sells that have a counterweighted shaft is the IO-360-A1B6 and the O and IO-540 for the RV-10. If your certified 360 engine doesn't have a number as the 4th digit in the model designation it isn't counterweighted and the AD doesn't apply to it. If you have an uncertified non counterweighted engine model that someone purchased a new counterweighted shaft from Lycoming and installed it, then the AD could apply even if they didn't change the model number to reflect the counterweighted shaft.
The key is that the 360 shaft used in all of the 180 hp new O-360-A1A engines from Vans and most of the 180 hp clone supplier engines, all used non counterweighted shafts. If you are not sure what type of shaft you have, then you should absolutely check it out. But if you know you absolutely don't have a counterweighted shaft then the AD doesn't apply to you.
Good Luck,
Mahlon
"The opinions and information provided in this and all of my posts are hopefully helpful to you. Please use the information provided responsibly and at you own risk."

Lycoming engine AD

Here is the list of engines, manufacturers and aircraft models affected. copied this directly off the FAA site. Hope it helps

Applicability

(c) This AD applies to Lycoming Engines AEIO-360, IO-360, O-360, LIO-360, and LO-360 series reciprocating engines, manufactured new or rebuilt, overhauled, or that had a crankshaft installed after March 1, 1999. These engines are installed on, but not limited to, the following aircraft:

Engine model, Manufacturer, Aircraft model

AEIO?360?A1B6 Moravan Scottish Avia Valmet Z242L Zlin Bulldog
L?70 Vinka

AEIO?360?A1E6 Integrated Systems Omega

IO?360?A1B6 Aircraft Manufacturing Factory Beech, Cessna, Korean Air, Lake, Mooney, Partenavia, Saab, Scottish Avia, Socata Mushshak , C?24R Sierra or 200 Sierra, R?G Cardinal, Chang Gong?91, LA?4?200 Buccaneer, M?20?J, P?68 Series Observer, MFI?15 Safari or MFI?17 Supporter Bulldog,
TB?200

IO?360?A1B6D Cessna, Mooney, Siai Marchetti R?G Cardinal, M?201, M?205

IO?360?A3B6 Mooney, Mod Works M?201, Trophy 212 Conversion

IO?360?A3B6D Mooney M20J?201

IO?360?C1C6 Piper, Ruschmeyer PA?28R?201 ,Arrow MF?85

IO?360?B1G6 American Blimp

IO?360?C1G6 Zeppelin Blimp

IO?360?C1E6 Piper PA?34?200 Seneca I

LO?360?A1G6D Beech 76 Duchess

LO?360?A1H6 Piper PA?44?180 Seminole

O?360?A1F6 Cessna 177 Cardinal

O?360?A1F6D Cessna 177 Cardinal

O?360?A1G6D Beech 76 Duchess

O?360?A1H6 Piper PA?44?180

O?360?E1A6D Piper PA?44?180

O?360?F1A6 Cessna C?172RG Cutlass RG

IO?360?C1D6 Sold as a spare engine.

LIO?360?C1E6 Sold as a spare engine.

LO?360?E1A6d Sold as a spare engine.
LIO?360?C1D6 Sold as a spare engine.

Thanks, good info

Thanks, Jkkinz, mahlon_r, cjensen and jcoloccia for taking the time to research, explain. Jkkinz, nice list. mahlon_r as usual we rely on you to provide the expert comment on engines. Thanks.

There are two recent events. The AD just release affecting less than 300 engines. The other event, was an earlier released SB:

The latest is an AD, affects less than 300 engines, full cost will be paied for repair.

The other earlier event was a SB, service bulletin, which is not mandatory, addressed a broad "crankshaft retirement" program for some yet unknown reason or made clear by the FAA or Lyc. (no failures or reason?) This may change. SB are not mandatory of course, but can turn into AD's. This one looks like it will not be an AD, but who knows.

According to the AvWeb on the SB (which is broad in scope and the bigger issue than the limited AD) March '06 article

"Unlike earlier service bulletins, however, the latest warning from Lycoming affects crankshafts that, to the company's knowledge, haven't failed to perform as designed -- and that rubs the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association the wrong way."

"Even Lycoming concedes that there have been no failures with these crankshafts," said Luis Gutierrez, AOPA director of regulatory and certification policy. "The FAA needs to do its homework and ensure that there is compelling, risk-based data to support what will be an expensive proposition for owners."

"SB 569 calls for the crankshaft to be replaced whenever the crankcase is opened, the engine overhauled, or within three years, whichever comes first. That's not the worst of it, though: unlike previous ADs where the company paid all expenses for replacing the crankshaft, Lycoming is only offering to provide a $2,000 "crankshaft kit" (as they had in the past). If the SB requirements are written into an AD, AOPA reports owners could face a $6,000 to $7,000 bill within three years"​

Replacing them WHY? They are NOT paying the full parts cost and any labor? As it said in the previous AD they paied the full meal deal.

The AD that is required as Jkkinz mentioned only affect counter weight engines. Any (I)O-360 or (I)O-320, 180hp or less is not affected. Most RV's are built with non-counter weighted cranks. So lets take a deep breath.


aadamson, you are building a Lancair with a Continental? Thanks for the concern. What is the status of the Continental Crank AD a few years ago? Teledyne AD Are you good. Hope so. This JUST in, Continental engine fails Engine Fails What do you think? Bummer

George

My O360A1A (180hp) crank was built in the late 70's, but overhauled in 2000, however my Lyc crank was overhauled (by ECI), not replaced, its also not counter weighted or an the list (which I knew anyway, but I checked for grins and giggles).

Yep

George,

Yes, it will be a Cont IO-550. That crank issue is being taking care of in the build but yes it will be taken care of.

Thanks for checking and I just happened to see that AD this AM and noted the IO-360 that most of the kit companies sell was listed.. The A1B6.

One note

On the list of manufacturers, that is only the certified guys. I suspect that any of the experimental guys are also effected that sell those engines. Which in the case of the IO-360 is just about everyone.