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Sudden standard rate bank to right with Trutrak DIGIFLT II VSGV & GRT Hor 1

cleve_thompson

Well Known Member
On 3 occasions in about 175 hours of flight in my RV9A, I have had theTrutrax DIGIFLT II SVGV linked to the GRT Horizon 1 with GPS steering from Garmin 430W make an unexplained standard rate turn to the right.
One of these times I was in IMC and it really scared me because it took me a short time to determine if it were EFIS artificial horizon failure or autopilot malfunction. It was just a very brief time and I was able to correct the problem after a/p disconnect. In that short time, however, I had turned approx. 30degrees
It could have led to more serious disorientation and uncontrolled flight in IMC. I must find a solution.
I don't know where to start trouble shooting. Any ideas? :confused:
 
It sure sounds to me like the navigation source changed between enav/gnav/hdg and it was turning to the new solution. I've only had that happen because of pilot input.
 
VFR only experience

I have not flown my setup in IFR, let alone IMC conditions, but I have had the plane divert from my planned course a time or two flying VFR. My experiences turned out to be that when I had engaged the auto pilot I did not have the ENAV selected on the GRT HX unit. instead I had the HDG function engaged. The autopilot began steering to whatever that HDG setting was on the EFIS instead of the GPS flight plan.

I don't want to presume this could be your situation but just a data point to ponder.
 
Change of Nav input.

I agree with Scott, it would most likely seem to be responding to a change in Nav input. Do you have a switch to toggle between sources? This could be intermittent. If this were to happen again, I would record the new heading that your AP is seeking. One of your Nav inputs will likely be set for that same heading. If you suspect that the source is from a VOR, center the CDI needle to see if the AP stops turning. Hopefully you'll be in VMC next time.
 
Same as Steve

I've had the same thing happen when engaging what I thought was my GPS flight plan when actually the GRT was in heading mode with the bug set MANY degrees off my current heading. I still do it occasionally and now know what it is immediately. Pressing both knobs on the GRT to set the bug on your current heading fixes things quickly and provides a moment of calm to go back into the menu and select ENAV which then steers you back on course.
 
AP must be turn on while on the ground

I just read on the advanced flight system website that the AP must be turned on while on the ground allowing the device to calibrate. Turning on while airborne can result in unpredictable behavior.

Dont know if thats the issue but worthy of note.
 
Paul, you are right.

I just read on the advanced flight system website that the AP must be turned on while on the ground allowing the device to calibrate. Turning on while airborne can result in unpredictable behavior.

Dont know if thats the issue but worthy of note.

I learn this the hard way.

Correct procedure is to turn AP and remain stationary until the AP is finished starting up, about 15 seconds. The message on the screen will change.

The reason is so that the electronic gyros will be able to get started correctly.

If you loose GPS/EFIS source to the AP, the AP falls back to it's gyros to maintain wings level. When I forgot and lost my GPS signal I saw a bank to the left.

Kent
 
Me Too...

Cleve,

I sent you a PM with other detail and my phone number. I am about a year into troubleshooting the same problem.

Mine is NOT an external signal issue. I have sent the unit to TT for an upgrade and that did not fix it.

I suspect a temp related problem in the control head.

Call me if you want to compare notes.

Jim Delveau
 
DigiflightII

About 3 years ago I was on my way from North GA. VFR to Austin,TX when, just NE of Jackson, MS. my autopilot decided that it wanted to go to New Orleans.

At the time I only had a Dynon D10A, A King KLN-90B, and the DigiflightII. Nothing was attatched to the Dynon. The KLN-90B was the only electronic nav eqpt. on board which was driving the autopilot.

It happened a couple of times and I always attributed it to the KLN-90B becoming overheated, since it always came back on line in a few minutes.
 
Working on a solution Will let you know the outcome

I sent an email to Carlos at Grand Rapids this morning and he answered me right back. Good customer service!!!! He thinks, as some of you do, that the EFIS might be switching from GNAV to HDG mode spontaneously. He has sent me several questions to get started on the trouble shooting. I will let you know what the outcome will is.
When I was in IMC, I was into the flight about 2 hours when the sudden bank occurred. I have an A/P disconnect on my switch which I hit, straightened the plane up and reactivated the A/P without doing anything to the EFIS settings or the 430 as I recalled and went ahead and finished the flight with no further trouble. You better believe I kept my eyes on the D/G, backup Trutrak ADI, etc. for the remainder of the flight, particularly as I went in the cloud cover.
I have not turned on the A/P routinely on the ground. I don't remember ever knowing that that was necessary. I just usually wait until I need it. Iwill get my op manual out and see if this applies to the Trutrak.
Thanks for all the imput!
 
I just read on the advanced flight system website that the AP must be turned on while on the ground allowing the device to calibrate. Turning on while airborne can result in unpredictable behavior.

Dont know if thats the issue but worthy of note.

My Trio EZ-pilot was doing the same thing. When I told Trio about the problem, they pointed me to the paragraph in the manual that said to start the Autopilot on the ground. I haven't had the problem since.
 
Just a data point - I don't know how your system is wired, this may be irrelevant. In my C-172 I have a pushbutton switch that switches the GPS and NAV input to the HSI, and the autopilot simply follows the HSI. That pushbutton switch drives a relay buried in the panel which actually switched the data lines, the relay got an intermittent break in the power wire driving the coil, with the result that it would spuriously drop out of GPS (powered) mode and revert to NAV (unpowered) mode, and the autopilot would dutifully follow the new heading, swinging the airplane around to whatever was now displayed.
 
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We've got a DigiFlight II (basic version) in the RV-8 and I wired it directly to the GNS430's serial output #1. I routinely power up the autopilot after I'm already in the air and switch it to GPS nav mode and it has always stayed locked on course just fine for me. I reckon I've actually flown at least 25 or more hours now with it tracking the GPS and not experienced one uncommanded course deviation thus far.
 
I will call TruTrak on Monday. I surely do appreciate all the input from all! I will ask the Trutrak tech about need to have the A/P switched on before flight. I hadn't heard that before this discussion. I always wait on the GRT EFIS to boot up and the AHRS to "right" itself before taxi but not the A/P.
I am making a flight this morning of about 2 hours and will see if I have any problem.
 
I will call TruTrak on Monday. I surely do appreciate all the input from all! I will ask the Trutrak tech about need to have the A/P switched on before flight. I hadn't heard that before this discussion. I always wait on the GRT EFIS to boot up and the AHRS to "right" itself before taxi but not the A/P.
I am making a flight this morning of about 2 hours and will see if I have any problem.

You DEFINITELY want to power up the AP while you're on the ground and stationary. It only takes about 10-15 seconds to get through the power up sequence. Once the screen shows AP OFF, you're ready to go.
 
same for me

I always turn the ap on when on the ground. My AP is the TT AP-100; It says "PWR UP" for about 8-10 second. I remain stationary during that time. When it changes to "AP OFF" I start to taxi.
 
I have had this same thing happen. In my case, I was able to "fix it."

Some things not mentioned so far:

It matters whether you have the older, or newer / upgraded model of the AP. With the DigiFlight series, the older models used an internal magnetometer. In the event of loss of GPS signal, as others have noted, the AP will attempt to "maintain last heading" using the magnetometer as a source.

This was not found to be always "reliable" (and in my case was eye-opening, as it was for the OP, but it was VFR so not dangerous). In some installations, magnetic interference behind the panel caused the heading to "wander" significantly. Even in installations where it CAN work satisfactorily, it probably WON'T unless you have completed the magnetic compass calibration as described in the manual.

There can also be issues if there are pins that do not connect well to your ARINC source. This can cause erratic behavior.as well.

I had BOTH problems (intermittent connection and neglected to perform the mag calibration). Since addressing both issues I have purposely induced GPS failure in all modes (I have ARINC connected to my GNS 480, and serial connected to my 496). It tracks mag heading with < 5 degree heading change after losing source GPS, and doesn't seem to "wander" in heading more than a degree or so.

The newer versions (or upgraded, if you ask for it) have removed (or disabled?) the magnetometer. In these models when GPS is lost the unit will attempt to prevent heading change, but doesn't really know which direction it is headed. Over time, if unnoticed and in turbulence, I suspect your heading could drift but don't know how much or how fast. I considered the upgrade, but since I got my bugs worked out I prefer the option to have it steer magnetic in the event the GPS constellation takes a dump.

Last tidbit for this series of AP. Although TT does not ADVERTISE it as a feature (and I have harangued them about missing an opportunity), I believe it is a good idea to have the two GPS hookups come from different GPS units. In my case a GNS 480 is "primary" and connects via ARINC; the 496 is backup. I have my GNS configured to cross-fill my flight plan to the 496, and have verified that if power is lost to the 480 the 496 retains the last flight plan. With this setup, in the event that your primary GPS takes a nap during flight you get two benefits:

a) The AP does not have to rely on either mag heading or attitude - it will fly GPS track mode as it's "degraded mode"
b) Simply pushing the NAV button will resume flying the flight plan while you figure out what went wrong with your primary GPS - important if you are flying airways with lots of turns out east

Last thought - I have considered installing a switch to PURPOSELY disconnect the GPS units from the AP. This would allow "steering" magnetic headings when being vectored. However, in practice I found that dialing in a course and then making a correction based on the compass works well enough to make it irrelevant.

By the way - I think this is a GREAT AP once you learn how it works in all circumstances.

Cheers,

Bill Reister
 
Neal, there won't be a problem....

We've got a DigiFlight II (basic version) in the RV-8 and I wired it directly to the GNS430's serial output #1. I routinely power up the autopilot after I'm already in the air and switch it to GPS nav mode and it has always stayed locked on course just fine for me. I reckon I've actually flown at least 25 or more hours now with it tracking the GPS and not experienced one uncommanded course deviation thus far.

As long as you have GPS signal. But if you loose GPS signal the AP starts relying on it internal gyros and most likely be unable to hold level flight.

Kent
 
Nice writeup Bill! Sheesh...next thing you know you're gonna have to be on the payroll here.

Neal@F14: Please be sure to power up the AP while on the ground and stationary. Thanks!
 
I flew yesterday & had no problems in 2 hrs. of flight so unable to get any additional information. I did check and found that my a/p IS wired to my avionics switch so it is being powered up while I am waiting on the EFIS to power up so that is not the problem.
What I think that I am going to try to do is keep my heading bug set to my course even when in GNAV mode so if for some reason the EFIS switches to HDG mode, I won't have a surprise.
I am SURE that I will forget to do this all the time though so I will still try to find an underlying cause.
 
A suggestion

If you set your heading bug slightly off course, say five degrees, you'll know that the AP has switched over but the effect won't be too dramatic.
 
HDG BUG should always be set to your heading while flying a plan for that exact reason. I remember my instructors beating that into me.

I have a different AP and if you get a DR mode in your 430/530 it will drop from NAV to HDG and if your bug is in the wrong spot, you get a surprise. mind you I think the latest software sync's the bug ...... been a while so I should check.

This raises a good point make sure you know your system backwards, not just forwards!
 
Sync HDG bug! SYNC HDG bug!! SYNC HDG BUG!!!!

The title of this reply is for my benefit! Thank you all for the enlightening discussion. I have a better grasp of the problem and will keep the bug synced with the course particularly in IMC.
I still am not sure I understand why the EFIS apparently switched to HDG Mode but then I don't understand how a GPS works much less why it doesn't :D
 
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