Skipping an IAF on an approach

Recently, my wife and I flew to Georgetown, S.C. and I wanted to shoot an LPV approach there. We approached the final course leg at an acute angle which would have required about a 120 degree right turn.

The 430 depicted a holding pattern at the IAF, which I wanted to avoid, so I just turned right at the IAF and it kept telling me to turn around, which I also didn't want to do. Eventually, it saw fit to go along and we made the approach.

I've been told that you can highlight and IAF waypoint and press CLR.
How do you guys fly this kind of approach?

Thanks,

I am not sure how your GPS equipment works but as a controller we are not permitted to vector an aircraft to such and approach if the angle of intercept would exceed 90 degrees. That being said I assume this rule is built into your equipment thus the reason it didn't want you to proceed as you did. If there is a way to override that characteristic I am not sure what it would be.

Not 430 specific, but from a heading mode, you should be able to do an "intercept course to xxx" and may even be able to put the course in manually.

In this case an intermediate fix inside the IAF or the runway threshold at centerline would work, and of course the course would be the Final Approach Course.

Joe

OK, I'll Bite

Pierre:
What airport and what IAP?
Without looking, if a course reversal is depicted, whether a hold or PT, it must be followed. Not required when NoPT is depicted or when radar vectors are provided or when conducting a timed approach. As indicated, ATC will not attempt to align you inbound on an intermediate or final approach course by taking an acute angle.
Terry

Terry is right of course. I assumed you were VFR/VMC and simply using the course guidance for situational awareness.

Joe

vectors to final?

Pierre, why not select vectors to final as the approach transition?

Although, if on that approach the IAF with the hold is also the FAF, it might still complain, since you would be trying to intercept the final approach course inside the FAF.

EDIT: Assuming you are referring to the RNAV RWY 23 at Georgetown (the GPS RWY 5 is nonprecision), if you want to join the final approach course between OTVOE and LEYIV, selecting "VECTORS" when loading the approach ought to let you do that.

--Paul

Not sure on 430 but on 480

I know that the 430 & 480 are very different but on the 480 this is pretty simple.

Assuming the approach is loaded and activated in the Flight Plan:
1. Select Flight Plan mode
2. Expand the plan so that you can see all the legs of the approach
3. Turn the knob to highlight the the point in the approach that you want to go to.
4. Push the Direct To button then Execute

This will route you from Present Position to the selected point on the approach. Once you arrive at the point, normal leg sequencing resumes.

what Rick says, but...

If you want to fly the FA on the course heading, get the flight plan up like Rick said, highlight the leg you want to intercept, hit MENU to activate that leg and then Enter, Enter. That should intercept the course at a 45^ and put you on the exact inbound course. I use that many times on SIDS and STARS when given shourtcuts. It does work on legs of approaches as well.
YMMV

Although have not tried this specific airport/situation, if I want to skip any/all IAF, I would just go to flight plan and make the next way point that I want to (FAF as an example) my next active destination, thus bypassing all pervious way points (IAF). Hopefully, I am not situated in such way that I need to make a 180 degree turn.

dunno 430, but I just tried it on a G1000 trainer on the rnav 11 kbed which is very similar and you can press proc to show the hold, select the hold and press clr and it will remove the hold even if you are approaching from way upwind. This despite that the hold is depicted and thus "must be flown" since we are not on one of the Nopt transitions.

In practice, though, I just take vectors when available. If not, which is hypothetical, I think I'd fly the hold.

All this from a low-time instrument pilot. Any CFIIs out there?

proceedure turn

I'm pretty sure you're suppose to fly over the IAF and then past the IAF and do a proceedure turn inbound. The depiction of the holding pattern is just showing you the area within which you can do the procedure turn. So a slight turn might be required at the IAF so you stay within the holding pattern while you fly past, out and turn around.

If you're cleared for the approach and the controller doesn't include the words straight-in then he is expecting you to do the procedure turn.

If you want to avoid the procedure turn request the approach to be by vectors to final and ATC will take you out and around the IAF so you approach it from more of a straight on vector.

Yes Paul....

Garage Guy said:

EDIT: Assuming you are referring to the RNAV RWY 23 at Georgetown (the GPS RWY 5 is nonprecision), if you want to join the final approach course between OTVOE and LEYIV, selecting "VECTORS" when loading the approach ought to let you do that.

--Paul

Click to expand...

...it was the LPV approach to 23 and I was inbound from the southwest. It's an uncontrolled airport so I didn't have the option to use "Vectors". You guys have, however, answered my question...highlight the waypoint I DON'T want to use and delete it.

Thanks again,

Yeah Joe

jferraro17 said:

Terry is right of course. I assumed you were VFR/VMC and simply using the course guidance for situational awareness.

Joe

Click to expand...

We were VFR and CAVU. I filed IFR and had cancelled before the approach. I usually try and practice approaches wherever I go and the Mrs. enjoys it too

Best,

RNAV GPS RWY 23 to PT or not PT

First, let me say I am not trying to criticize anyone, but someone asked for a CFII. Here is how I would teach someone flying that approach.

Approaching from the southwest, say from the waypoint CUBBY, the procedure turn becomes mandatory as the method of course reversal. There are several ways to complete this turn and those can be discussed another day. But by turning right, the aircraft would be flown outside of the TERPed protected airspace and there might not be obstacle clearance.

We could quickly get bogged down in scenarios; but to take a few. I am flying on a heading of 180 directly to OTVOE at 3000 feet. I am cleared for the approach and am confident I can lose the altitude. Course reversal is not necessary and I do not believe ATC would expect it. The waypoint is a flyby and the GPS will warn me in advance of the new course and the turn. Say I am at 5000 and do not feel I can lose all that altitude. Then I need to ask for a "lap" in the holding pattern for altitude loss. ATC would grant my request and I would need to tell the GPS I am holding.

The methods discussed for continuing would all work; such as vectors to final or going direct to the next waypoint or selecting the leg I want to join. Each GPS handles it a little bit differently. Which ever is selected just check the printed chart and make sure you stay in protected airspace.

I hope I did not step on any toes. Sorry this is so long, I could of made it a lot longer.

Find the approach in pdf format here: http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/1008/06244R23.PDF

sglynn said:

I'm pretty sure you're suppose to fly over the IAF and then past the IAF and do a proceedure turn inbound. The depiction of the holding pattern is just showing you the area within which you can do the procedure turn. So a slight turn might be required at the IAF so you stay within the holding pattern while you fly past, out and turn around.

If you're cleared for the approach and the controller doesn't include the words straight-in then he is expecting you to do the procedure turn.

If you want to avoid the procedure turn request the approach to be by vectors to final and ATC will take you out and around the IAF so you approach it from more of a straight on vector.

Click to expand...

Depends on the approach and the airport.

If it is to an airport in the boonies, true. But at major metropolitan airports, not true. (No one ever makes a procedure turn at ORD, it would totally screw up the flow of traffic.)

The key is the No PT symbol on the approach plate. In that case, FAR 91.175 states, "....no pilot may make a procedure turn unless cleared to do so by ATC".

sahrens said:

Approaching from the southwest, say from the waypoint CUBBY, the procedure turn becomes mandatory as the method of course reversal. There are several ways to complete this turn and those can be discussed another day.

Click to expand...

A good discussion on that topic here: http://aviationmentor.blogspot.com/2008/01/barbs-teardrops-hilo.html

--Paul

pierre smith said:

Recently, my wife and I flew to Georgetown, S.C. and I wanted to shoot an LPV approach there. We approached the final course leg at an acute angle which would have required about a 120 degree right turn.

The 430 depicted a holding pattern at the IAF, which I wanted to avoid, so I just turned right at the IAF and it kept telling me to turn around, which I also didn't want to do. Eventually, it saw fit to go along and we made the approach.

I've been told that you can highlight and IAF waypoint and press CLR.
How do you guys fly this kind of approach?

Thanks,

Click to expand...

Sorry for the late reply but I just ran across this post. Here's the "right" way to do this with the 4 or 5 series or the G1000. Obviously if you were in IFR conditions you'd have to get permission to skip the hold, but there's also another very common reason you may want to skip a leg and go directly to another in you flight plan. Let's say your flight plan takes you from point A to B to C to D. Let's also assume that B to C is a Victor airway (V123).

You're flying along between A and B and you get vectored around something, then the controller says "Rejoin V123." At that point you need to activate the leg between B and C and join it. You don't necessarily want to fly directly to B. In your case you would have wanted to have just activated the leg between OTVOE and LEYIV as you got almost to OTVOE.

You can do activate any leg in your flight plan (even in an approach) one of two ways.....

My preference:

Pull up the flight plan, push the small button on the right to activate the cursor, turn the large button to put the cursor on the waypoint that defines the end of the leg that you want to activate (LEYIV in your case) the press the Direct To button TWICE, then press Enter. If you just press it once you will go directly to LEYIV which isn't what you want to do. Then press the small knob one more time to stop editing.

The other way is to do the same steps as above, but when your cursor is on LEYIV press Menu then press Enter to accept "Activate Leg" which is the default action.

Hope this helps.

Steve Jarrell
RV-7A
Hendersonville, NC 0A7