Painting ?????s

I am very interested in painting my RV myself and searching for advise from others who have done it themselves. I'm interested in what paints were used, number of gallons needed, difficulty of the painting process itself, pros and cons, would you do it again,etc. I have read some threads of RV'ers that have painted their planes but would like a little more detailed info. Some of the paint jobs look real nice and could compare with paint jobs from professional shops.
I thank you in advance for your replies.

Peter
RV-9A
Flying

I've painted four airplanes and a few cars over the years. The most difficult thing for me to achieve was getting dry air from the compressor. There is no frustration quite equal to having the paint gun start spitting water as you are finishing applying a coat. I live in the wet Pacific Northwest, where the air is rarely dry. I wound up building an intercooler to cool the air between the compressor and the tank, then leaving the valve on the bottom of the tank partially open to remove any water. Trust me, a simple water trap doesn't do the job. Doing this created a problem with the unload valve on the compressor, but I was able to live with it.
You must have a number lights available so you can see that your paint is going on wet enough to produce a glossy coat without producing sags and runs.
I built a wood frame, plastic covered booth that had a fan to exhaust the overspray. You don't want overspray settling back on the nice finish you just applied.
Read some books that describe surface peraration and do what they say. There is no such thing as too clean.

Bob Severns

I painted my 7A myself during the building process. It was simpler to paint when the plane was in small sections as opposed to an assembled plane. You will need a larger area if you are planning to paint without disassembling it. You will need to remove all the control surfaces, wheel pants, cowl, and covers in order to do a thorough job.

I used a gallon kit (gives you about 2.5 gallons) of Polyfiber EP 420 white primer, 2 gallon kits of white and one gallon kit of red Aerothane. The Aerothane kits only yield one gallon. You also need about a gallon of reducer, several gallons of a cleaner like MEK and Lacquer thinner. I also used a product from Polyfiber called C-2210 Paint Surface Cleaner to clean the surfaces prior to painting, once before primer, once before colors.

I have a Citation HVLP setup with FreshAir mask and hood. I built my spray booth using 2" PVC pipe and 4 mil plastic. I added a window box fan and furnace filters as well as banks of flood lights and flourescent lights. You can never have too much light when you paint.

It is more economical to paint yourself, even when you need to buy the spraying equipment and build the booth, but is is a lot of work. The HVLP system I have is very easy to use and yields good results. Practicing during the primer stage should "train" you well enough that by the time you get to the finish coats, you''ll be fine. Do small items first till you get the hang of it. They will be easier to repair if you goof.

One more thing. Make sure all your fiberglass parts are smooth and free of pinholes. If they are not, they will look horrible when the finish is applied. Prep the fiberglass using the epoxy resin cut with Acetone as Van's recommends. The use of Polyfiber UV Smooth Prime helps get rid of pinholes in the fiberglass. Also, a good two part epoxy glazing compound from an auto paint store will help rid those last pinholes. There is a lot of product application and sanding involved with the fiberglass. Just be patient and do it. The metal requires etching or roughing up with scotch brite and a lot of cleaning.

Good luck,

Roberta

Thanks Bob & Roberta for the information. A lot of what you mentioned seems to be a common denominator in the art of painting. One thing you mentioned Roberta was the use of Poly-Fiber paints. I was under the impression they were mostly used on fabric A/C and not too much on aluminum. I have looked at a lot of books, magazines,etc in preparation of this painting job I'm about to undertake and not a lot is mentioned about using Poly-Fiber for metal planes. How is it standing up? I was thinking about Dupont Imron only because it is very easily available in my area. On a previous plane I built years ago, I used Imron and it seemed to stand up good with a good gloss retention quality.
I will be dissassmbling my RV as to make it easier to paint. Like you, I have a HVLP system that will be used for the whole project and the garage will be converted into a spray booth with the proper ventilation and breathing systems.
Again, thanks for the info.

Peter

Poly Fiber makes great fabric paint. A very easy to use system. The Aerothane system is the bottom of the barrel as far as aircraft paint goes. It does come in the same colors as the fabric paint comes in though.

KTM

Why do you feel that Aerothane is "botton of the barrel"? I painted two airplanes using it with excellent, lasting results, with a very glossy wetlook finish. Many people I know have also used it with the same results I had. Have you ever used it? At 150+ a gallon it certainly isn't cheap.

Polyfiber Aerothane is an excellent two part polyurethane that is used on metal, fiberglass and fabric. Polyfiber Polytone is the duller, single part paint used mostly on fabric.

Roberta

Afs

I've been building my 8a in my garage with the bedroom over top. I decided on the AFS waterbase poly for both primer and finish coat. its easy to use, doesnt require a respirator and is wife friendly!

http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/

Charlie Becker
N464CB(r) RV8A
Fuselage

painting your plane

I am very interested in painting my RV myself and searching for advise from others who have done it themselves.

Click to expand...

For what its worth, here is info on my painting experience:

http://www.thervjournal.com/paint1.html

The paint job still looks quite nice after nearly seven years in the field.

Sam Buchanan

robertahegy said:

KTM

Why do you feel that Aerothane is "botton of the barrel"? I painted two airplanes using it with excellent, lasting results, with a very glossy wetlook finish. Many people I know have also used it with the same results I had. Have you ever used it? At 150+ a gallon it certainly isn't cheap.

Polyfiber Aerothane is an excellent two part polyurethane that is used on metal, fiberglass and fabric. Polyfiber Polytone is the duller, single part paint used mostly on fabric.

Roberta

Click to expand...

I have used Aerothane many times. It is not as easy to work with as other aircraft polyurethane systems. It's a lot thinner and does not the covering ability. You must be carefull to apply really thin coats to avoid runs and need more coats to get the color uniformity you need. The last time I used was on a T-6 Texan that being restored by it's owner. Allmost all the parts of that aircraft can be removed from the airplane and placed on a table for easy painting. It all looked great when done. When the parts were put back on you could tell slight diferences in the color even though they all had the same amount of coats on them.

I know the difference between the the Polyfiber systems. What I ment was this. Say, for example, you going to paint a PT-17 Stearman. Being a fabric airplane you could use PolyTone on the fabric for ease of application and ease of future repairs, and get the same color in Aerothane to paint your cowls. Or any other metal parts you have.

I'm not saying it's a bad paint. It has one really big advantage, you can buy it from Aircraft Spruce. With all the other better systems out there, Aerothane is not my first choice.

Great Site for Painting Tips

Everything you need to know can be found at this site:

www.paintucation.com

This is a site primarily devoted to hotrod and streetrod painting.You may need to dig around in the forum archives. I learned everything I needed to know about equipment and paint by lurking on this site and asking a few questions. I am painting my RV7A using PPG Concept Single Stage urethane and it is turning out very nice.

John R.

Don't do what I did...

I went with PPG Concept basecoat/clearcoat and chose a metal flake basecoat. It was too difficult for a novice like me. The metal flake basecoat came out fair-to-poor, the clearcoat came out fair-to-poor with orange peeling and some runs. If I were to do it again, it would definitely be a single stage paint without metal flake. And, I would practice 'a bit more'.

Good luck.

I've painted three airplanes and I'm currently painting my Rocket. I think the single stage polyurethanes are for the pros. I've used Imron and it was very difficult to get just right. There's a fine line between orange peel and runs. I've never had much luck buffing it although folks say it can be done successfully.

I actually think the basecoat/clearcoat systems are a little easier to get right for the non-professional. I don't think the professionals use them as much because it takes more time to apply. You basically have to paint the airplane twice. However, it gives you and me an opportunity to correct our mistakes with sandpaper, a nibbler, and buffing compound.

Either way, you begin to understand my an average paint job costs $6,000 and up. I have over $1,000 in materials alone so far.

The $6000 bargain paint job

Randy observed:

Either way, you begin to understand why an average paint job costs $6,000 and up. I have over $1,000 in materials alone so far.

Click to expand...

Amen. It wasn't until after I painted my plane that I came to this conclusion, but considering labor and overhead, I don't see how pro painters can make a decent profit with a $6000 paint job.

Sam Buchanan

Points Well taken

Thanks a lot to everyone who is responding to this thread. Sam, I read your article on painting your RV-6 and I found it very informative with a nice compliment of pictures. I certainly hope I can get the paints to flow as well as the information is flowing on this thread. Please keep it coming.
Many Thanks Again
Peter Marshall
RV-9A 90491

Hey Peter

Here is my page.

http://rv8bldr.tripod.com/the_paint_job.html

Enjoy

Really sharp paint job

Hi Mark
I like your paint job resembling our Canadian Snowbirds Team! Thanks for the info and link to your painting experience. One thing I have heard two schools of thought on is whether to etch or not to etch on new aluminum surfaces. I have heard that new paint will start to flake off in a few years if you DON'T etch whereas etched & alodined surfaces hold better. Anyone out there know of this? Input will be appreciated.
Thanks
Peter
RV-9A C-GRVN

PPG Concept and Light Colors

FWIW, I painted 2 planes, 1 fabric and 1 metal alog with a kit car. I plan to paint my plane too at home. I used PPG DCC Concept color products single stage paints with PPG self etch primer. Use the K38 builder/primer filler for fiberglass to make quick work of the fiberglass pinholes. Best product I found for fiberglss filler and prime prep work.

For the RV I will use a light colored primer and top coat to keep weight down. For the kit car I used BC/CC system but I would not use it in an airplane for 3 reasons: weight, cost, difficult and cosly to repair.

I will stay with light colors to avoid oil canning. The aluminum expands very fast under the sun on dark colored airpanes and the caning effect looks bad. My current bird is half green/half white on the wing and the green stuff cans up a lot compared to the white. Won't make that mistake on the RV, specially the outside skins being light and the rib spacing wider. I'll stick with the Pearl white color from Chrysler because it looks good and is half he cost of colored paints.

Process is simple. quickly Scotchbrite the aluminum to remove the shine. Not too agresive, just a fast job to dull the aluminum a little. Clean with Acetone or PPG cleaner/dewaxer. Apply 2 cross linked self etch primer coats VERY LIGHT and follow up with 2 light topcoats. If done right I figure it should take 1.5 gallons of DCC color to get the job done. Any mistakes are wet sanded and the color comes back up whee the job is polished.

Jose Borja
Elk Mound WI http://www.hometown.aol.com/pepeborja/RVfuse2.jpg

I just painted my -4 using Valspar (same paint Van's uses). I used their epoxy primer in white and their polyurathane paint. Mostly I used a Harbor Freight 2Qt pot HVLP gun and an Alltrade gravity gun for the color. It required a little over a gallon of primer and about a gallon and a half of white pluss the activator & reducer etc. Took maybe about 12 oz of red and maybe 16 oz of blue. Total cost for materials (paint, activator, reducer, clean up, mask, suite, measuring containers, strainers, masking supplies, dryers etc. etc. about $1000. Another $150 to build a booth out of PVC pipe and visqueen.

As a side benifit I later found out that a lot of farmers use this same epoxy primer on the inside of their chemical tanks. Must be pretty tuff stuff. For my base color I used fleet white and therefore was able to return what I didn't use (full can). I am very pleased with the results once I learned how to set up and use the gun. Used about 35 to 40 lbs pressure at the hose and set the pot to about 7 lbs. The pot sprayer allows you to spray longer and in any position. I used the gravity gun for the color only because I had it and it is a little easier to clean up. The HVLP seems a bit harder to get a smooth coat, but once you get it set up right then it work great. If you run too much pressure to the pot it's easy to get orange peel.

I can't say enough about lights. When you think you have enough, double it. Even then, have someone (with proper protection) hold additional lighting so you can see the reflection of what you are doing.

I say if you have a place to do it and don't have a reasonably priced & dependable painter person, do it yourself. It's a lot of work but worth it.

I had mine at a shop for about 4 months and the guy only wanted money but did very little. Finally had to fire him and hire the most dependable person I know - me.

This is in no way a condemnation against any other paint brand. I am in no way an expert on the different paints available. I settled on Valspar for several reasons. Van's uses it, It's available nearby, and it seems to be a very good product. Also, it's fairly easy to use and the supplier was very helpful.

Good luck