F1 Rocket build question & compare to RV

I understand the latest F1 Rocket kit will have a carbon fiber main spar.
I am guessing just the spar will be carbon fiber and aluminum ribs, skin etc bolted / riveted onto it. Or will the finished wing be like a "glassair" made of fiberglass or carbon fiber on the outside too?

Those of you that have built or are building the FI rocket, how is the labor compared to a quick build RV-8?

Do you agree that: with an RV-4 it can be cheaper to buy than build,
With the F1 rocket, its probably cheaper to build than buy one flying?

Thanks for your thoughts

So many questions, so little space! I'll try to help you a little.

My understanding of the new wing is that it will be all fiberglass. Not sure how much of it will be carbon, but I don't think it will have aluminum ribs or anything like that. I also believe that it will be finished for you, ready to bolt on.

The labor for a F1 is slightly more than any "pre-punched" RV for that reason. It is less than a non-pre-punched RV kit because you can only get the Rocket as a quickbuild. In just general terms, if you buy a quickbuild RV, the effort to buils will be about the same between the two except for the empennage. The Rocket empennage is not pre-punched and you'll have to build it the old way, like the RV-4s, in a jig.

The answer to your last question has many paths. It depends on how much your labor is worth. It also depends on what instrument/engine package you have to buy versus what you would have built. It also depends on the seller and how desperate they might be? Because the F1 Rocket is a higher-end costing airplane, some sellers may be willing to part with theirs with minimal labor expense built in. I think the same is true for RVs by the way. There are just so many variables. Generally if you can buy it equiped the same way you would build it, you can probably buy it cheaper than build it even if you only charged $5/hour for your labor. Ask me how I know.

Be safe Dan and thanks for your service.

Perfect Thanks

Randy,
Thanks for confirming my gut feeling about the new wing, some how got the words "carbon spar" in my head and was doing too much dreaming about it.

I did not realize the empanage required full building. This makes sense to get the 51% with so many other items being done at the factory.

I see what you mean about build VS buy, so many variables. Man I sure wish I could affrod that $200,000 rocket on barnstormers yesterday. Hey Santa I wont do or think anything bad if you just ....
Last week I spent my next year of paychecks on buying a hanger (with a bath and kitchenette). Funny I have no idea where I will live when this gig is over, but it will be someplace I can legally be a pilot

dreaming the life for now....

I think the new wing does have a carbon spar, just not sure how much more carbon is in the wing. I'm pretty sure there's no aluminum in there.

Hey, the best thing you can do is start small and work your way up. That's what I did. I though my wife would kill me in our early years with two new kids and all my $$ going into the Long-EZ. Then when I sold that and bought a RV-6 kit, she could have killed me again. I won't even tell you what her reaction was when I bought the Rocket kit, but she sure didn't have much to say when I cashed the sales check for the Rocket.

I'm still working on her for the new Rocket, but age is catching up with me. I'm afraid she might actually CATCH ME!

Harmon Rocket?

Hi DD,

There I was, 2004 on my seventh deployment to the desert since 1991 and contemplating building a Harmon Rocket after having flown my RV4 for 10 years and 1000 hours. Why?
I spent five years and $20K (1995 dollars) to get The Bandit flying and couldn't believe the amount of airplane I had for that amount. Problem was, my friend Dale let me fly alongside and sit in his HR2 on a trip to the ID backcountry. Big mistake!
Building my RV4 was alot of work, but worth it. Being "in the business" now though, I would second your recommendation for buying a flying RV4, RV3, Mustang, Thorp T-18 or Tailwind or RV4 project as they are relatively inexpensive compared to building one. The Harmon Rocket is alot more airplane, you bet. It is an RV4 personified. Is it worth a ton more money, more insurance and going in cost etc? That depends on you. My buddy Dale (also a DD) built his HR2 with some scrimping and saving for what a high-end RV4 would cost. You might be able to keep your costs down and build one for a reasonable amount as well. Your call.

Personally I think after you buy a flying RV4, you'll be flying too much to worry about building

Smokey
HR2

I think I can, I think I can, I think I can

So cool to have flyers I really respect and admire to help me plan my airplane and flying stuff. Flying has been a dream for the first 46 years of my life. At age 55 (in fall of 2013 & If this contract keeps going) I plan to semi retire in the USA and fly/play fulltime for a year.

My mission is cross country, learning/flying lite aerobatics, and Buzzing around the air patch. Yes a -4 is way more practicle

I could own a Rocket OR for the same money an: RV-4 and, Tri-Pacer and, Nieuport 28 replica. The specs, photos, and stories I've seen make me think a rocket is the fastest most beautiful airplane I might be able to afford during my life; even if the operating costs make it only for a short time... I will get to live my dream! personified! perhaps -4 ownership will satisfy me. But I am not yer average yokle. I have a need for maximum speed and I like the wrenching as much as the flying. It has been written: "learning a new skill like building air planes or flying aerobatics keeps your mind young".

Smokey, you mentioned many cool experimentals but I am commited to my next bird being a -4 since I already bought and wear a VAF hat. When I buy my RV-4 you will be the consultant (if available). Probably be ready to buy mid 2011. One idea is to use the -4 as a rocket pilot trainer while I work full time building my rocket. Maybe I can hang on an additional year here with every dime earned going to buy the Rocket of my dreams.

So many choices in the price range of expensive Rockets. I like the: twin Beach?s, Nam? era Mohawk, and, O2 with certified bullet holes, rifle racks and faux rockets. suspect all these cost more to operate than single prop fixed gear.... was broke when I started this overeas gig. No wife or Kids and now I am used to living in tent and plastic out door bathroom.. sooo Tally Ho .... LOL

Ah but flying is not all money, I understand it takes mucho skill to ride the Rocket. Can a 400 hour mid 50s ?kid? run with the ?real pilots?? Hope the author does not mind me posting this, but it has been a huge inspiration and guide for me and I hope for others too ...

You will be completely capable of flying a Rocket if you take the time to do it right. You've taken the first step in admitting you need training and asking for help, now it's up to you to find it and follow through with it.
The Decathlon is a good choice for training, I did my TW endorsement in a Citabria. Live it, breathe it, be the tailwheel.............always be flying it until the wheels stop rolling.........stick back!...stick back!(flashbacks of my instructor yelling at me are still in my head)
Then go out and buy a -4 and get more training in it, log a good 100+ hours in it and then sell it, if you can. You'll want to keep it after owning it so I've been told by all owners.
Then go out and get some good training in a Rocket. Learn all the little tricks from the instructor, ie..forward cg, rubbery legs, somewhat blind landings, etc.....
If you really want it, you'll do it.
Just remember, the insurance will be your largest hurdle so don't skimp on the time involved.

I am based at Kandahar airfield a NATO base. My flying is as baggage in Chinocks and Blackhawks to the "outsites" installing Internet cafes for our front line soldiers. When here in garrison about 0800 every morning the fighters taking off is my serenade of the morning. I get to see many types of airplanes, F-16s the Belgians fly, French and their mirage, Harriers our marines pilot, Brits and thier Tornados, A-10s USAF, Ch-47s Canadians, Australians? and US army, UH-60s, a big group of privately owned old Russian MI-8s piloted by some of the same guys that fought here years ago, predators, reapers, every kind of ?trash hauler? you can imagine, 747s, C-5s, C-17, DC 8s, 727s, russian copies of c-5, c-141, c-130, the coolest was a DC-3 I saw twice in the same week during its climb out. I keep asking around to find the MWR flying club but there is always some excuse mentioning war zone.

Thank you all for helping me to get maximum enjoyment dreaming the dream!

DD,
I am presently working for Presidential Airways (PAW) in FOB Sharana in Eastern Afghanistan and have my fellow aviators working at the Kandahar base with 2 Sikorsky S-61's.
I own and fly the only Harmon Rocket 3 and I can attest to the evil addictiveness of these machines. Can we say "pass the crack pipe, please"?
You will fit right in to the club of aviators flying any RV, Harmon Rocket or F-1 with no problems as they are some of the best people I've ever met.
I'm presently going to start an RV-7 kit and haven't determined yet if I'm going to make it a Super-7 or not.
Keep dreaming, that's where it all starts.
Jeff

I've built an RV-7A and am now working on an F1 Rocket. The 7A was a QB kit and I built it with a partner, the F1 I am building solo.

There are certain points in any airplane project when you pretty much are on your own, with minimal guidance from the kit plans. In these situations you use other builders' experience or technical support from the kit manufacturer. My experience is that on the RV these points were fewer and occurred farther along in the project than with the F1. Part of this is also that having had experience with building one airplane I had a good idea of what I wanted in the second, and was more confident of diverging from the plans.

I can't speak for the Harmon Rocket kit/plans, but I've had good support and advice from Mark Frederick of Team Rocket in the process of building the F1. There are also some very knowledgeable and innovative F1 builders that have good advice on the process, which has been indispensable to me in getting through some parts of the project.

Should the F1 ever go back into production, and there are encouraging signs that it will, I would certainly consider building another. But I have to finish the first one!


Mark Olson N407V RV-7A, N16XV F1 Evo

<thread hijack>

Dan- Keep those Internet links working as we appreciate the round the world connection to our Son stationed at FOB Tarin Kowt.

Jeff- working for PAW at FOB Sharana tell Oliver howdy.

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