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RV Insurance

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itk96

I'm New Here
For all of the people who currently own an RV-4 does anyone know what a ballpark cost would be for insurance. My total time is around 5000 hrs but unfortunately I have 0 RV-4 time and have about 30 hours of tail wheel time. I have never owned an airplane or had insurance on an aircraft so I really have no idea what insurance would cost. If rates depend on which part of the country the aircraft is based it will be in AZ.

Thanks
Jeremy
 
Jeremy, I have a little more time and 500 hours in the RV4 but with $1,000,000 liability abd $50,000 hull loss my preimums at Nation Air are about $1700 annually. Roger Moore N67PM
 
RV-4 insurance

Contact Scott Smith at Skysmith Insurance. He covers my RV-4 and is an expert in all forms of RV insurance. I am high time and get the best rates around $1400 a year total coverage.

http://www.skysmith.com/
 
Good Post

You have to ask people a lot of questions when comparing Apples and Apples. The two posts represent a reasonable range of premiums. The big player is not only pilot time and experience (total and in type) but also the hull Value. Also insurance companies want training and EAA advisor participation to get the best rates.

With that said if you are a low time RV pilot (type/total) expect to pay more than $1,700 or not be offered coverage at all. If you are Zero RV time pilot expect you will need transition training at min. Even than many will not insure the first 10 hours.

The market for underwriters is small for experimental insurance. It's an insurance market, take it or leave it kind of thing. Consider getting ground only motion and liability. To further lower your coverage considers ground non-motion and liability.

However many will advice and it is good advice, if you get insurance get the full meal deal. Don't scrimp on coverage or under insure the haul.

I just priced my RV-7. I am an ATP and CFI with 10,000 total flight hours and 900 in RV's; the premium was about $1,700 on a $60,000 haul. To get first flight coverage was not a given. They mentioned no training was needed but wanted me to participate in the EAA tech and flight adviser programs. Other wise the first 10 hours would not be covered. My last RV, a RV-4 was insured for a hull of $45K-$50K and the premium was about $1,000 a year. I had 500 hours TG time, none in RV type and had no transition training at the time, about 10 years ago. The premium was still about $1100, 5 years later when I took the insurance off.

Prices and requirements have risen steadily in the last 5 years, and some of it is the accident / claim rate is not as good as it had been in the past, as I understand it. The insurance company looks at the black and white and charges accordingly. I hate insurance and insurance companies, but on the other hand if I were running the company I would do the same. I can't argue with training and advisors. Also RV's are being stacked with Avioinics like they never had before. Many claims are theft. If you got to latest $20,000 box sitting in your panel, it's a libility risk.

The other issue is they are not likely to insure a true experimental engine. In other words you have an alternative engine you may not be able to get insurance or the premium will be much higher than a "certified" experimental engine. Just be ready to pay the bucks. For me I am going with libility and ground non-motion. I think I recall a prem of $800. I would like to instruct in my RV for transition training. The premium rider over full prem is not bad, but that added to full coverage makes a part time training senerio not cost effective.

George
 
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Aig

I was 0 hours tailwheel, and 0 hours RV when I contacted AIG about insuring an already-flying RV-6. They wanted 10 hours dual, then another 10 solo before carrying a passenger. I got 1,000,000 liability and full hull ($60,000) for $1,600 per year.
 
Dave

If I may ask...

How much total time logged (non-RV) did you have?

And did the fact that the aircraft you were insuring was a previously flown experimental with hours already on it help?

Thanks
Scott
 
I was quoted $1808 for $75k hull and coverage for first flight. That's added on to another airplane policy.

edit-- 7A--sorry, didn't realize I was in a taildragger group.
 
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Good info

mark manda said:
I was quoted $1808 for $75k hull and coverage for first flight. That's added on to another airplane policy.

edit-- 7A--sorry, didn't realize I was in a taildragger group.
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Thats cool Mark it is a data point. It seems like $1700-$1800 is common. G
 
Most informative ...

Guys what about parntership deals?

I'm getting ready to begin building a -7 with a buddy who is just learning to fly. I'm at 2000 hours or so with a multi-ATP, buy the time we're flying I'll have a tail wheel endorsment and 50 or so hours of TD time.

Is the airframe insured differntly when you have people of different experience?

Dan in Dallas...
 
RV-4, issued 45 days ago.

Just under $1500, including 1st flight, $50,000 hull.

500+ total time, 75 TD, no RV time.

Required 5 hours of transition (in an RV - no stipulation of a TD!).

Was told that -4's have stabilized price wise recently as far as insurance goes.
 
Hostage46 said:
Guys what about parntership deals?

I'm getting ready to begin building a -7 with a buddy who is just learning to fly. I'm at 2000 hours or so with a multi-ATP, buy the time we're flying I'll have a tail wheel endorsment and 50 or so hours of TD time.

Is the airframe insured differntly when you have people of different experience?

Dan in Dallas...
Click to expand...

Dan,
I was in a 3-way Mooney partnership, insured by Avemco and they charged based upon the lowest experience level. They had several plateaus based on total time, time in type and ratings. Our partnership pro-rated each share based on our experience levels so that no one was penalized for the low timers.
 
RV-4 insurance

My personal feeling is that they take into account the 'experience' of the aircraft as well as the experience of the pilot. Case in point: me.

I only had about 100hrs total time, 15 hrs tailwheel, and 0 RV time. I bought a used flying RV-4 with 600hrs on it. I flew with Mike Seager for transition training (10 hrs). I insured the hull for $45,000 (which is what I bought the plane for, but it is now a low-ball number since I have dumped $$$ in to it since) and have 1,000,000 liability. My cost is $1800/year :p . I'm certainly not complaining......
 
Something about hull coverage to be aware of....

AV8rDoc said:
I insured the hull for $45,000 (which is what I bought the plane for, but it is now a low-ball number since I have dumped $$$ in to it since) .
Click to expand...

If the plane is insured for $45,000 and is worth $55,000 and you have a claim with substantual damage, the insurance company may pay you the $45,000 and then sell your plane off for salvage.

A friend had this happen to him. His plane was worth $60,000 (his extimate), his hull was $45,000 when he flipped it over on a too short runway. He had damage on the wings and tail. The insurance company declaired it totaled, but he wanted to repair it, so had to pay the salvage price of about $20,000.
It cost him about $35,000 to get all the repairs done.

If you had problems following my round about discription, I will recap.

$45000 Insurance total paid too him
$20000 He paid insurance co for salvage
$35000 He paid to get it repaired.
===============
$10000 Was paid by him to restore his $60000 airplane.

The moral to this story is don't under insure.

Kent
 
For 1 million liability on the -4 - is that smooth or with sublimits?
I could not get smooth sublimits on the 170, I have a million smooth on the 172, but had assumed I would not be able to get it on the -8 when finished...

T.
 
On the other hand. . .

Kent,

It seems to me that by "underinsuring" your friend got a good deal.

He insured a $60k plane for $45k, and when he totaled it it only cost him $10k to make up the difference, That's $10k minus the cumulative savings in insurance during the previous years, minus the cost of gas, hangar, taxes, bad airport breakfasts, etc. while it was being rebuilt.

By definition, the expected value of insurance is less than what you pay for it, otherwise the insurance companies wouldn't make any money. Insurance is a necessity to protect ourselves, but in strict terms it is always a bad investment.

Therefore my theory about insurance is that you should only insure what you can't afford to lose. Your friend could obviously afford the $10k, since he spent it. Therefore it seems he made the right decision.

My insurance is about $700/year for $1m liability and $50k hull, but that does not include in-motion hull coverage.

John Allen
 
Ins

I just checked and I was quoted $484.00 liability only at $1,000,000.
I have another plane insured with them. As of yet I have no Ins. By the time I am out of phase one I will get the $484.00 coverage.
No hull, if I bang it up I may not want to fly it anyhow.
 
kentb said:
The moral to this story is don't under insure.

Kent
Click to expand...


Kent-

I agree with you: under-insuring in general is not a good idea. I plan to increase my hull coverage when I renew my policy soon (but I'm scared to find out my new quote! :eek: ).
 
AIG

I went with AIG as well, after a fair bit of research. My situation was somewhat unique as I'm Canadian (eh) and the -4 is Canadian registered, but I'm transferred to the US for 3 years. My Canadian insurer (COPA-Marsh) wouldn't touch me, so a broker found AIG for me. $1400/yr (USD) for a $70K hull value, with 5K hours and 600hrs -4 time.

I've always been a believer in not scrimping on insurance coverage. If you peel your broken body out of a wreck, the last thing you want is for the Insurance company to have an 'out' - losing your precious airplane, as well as life or limb. Be careful with the Ground or Air options. "Ground" risks start only when you're clear of the active at taxi speed...It's pretty safe to say most of the bad juju happens on T/O or landing...It's also handy to have a policy that goes with you, vice the airplane (most do now). That way when you total your (former) best friend's steed, you're covered...

In your case, if you budget $2000, you won't be disappointed. For the record, if that makes or breaks the budget, well, you know the saying - "If it flies, floats or ..., you're better off renting..."

Looking forward to traversing the continent at 150kts next month...

Mike
RV-4 C-GJIP
 
AUA Brother...

I use AUA insurance in NC. They require EAA membership but rates are very competitive. The Bandit cost $1135 with 50K hull and $520 for comprehensive only. I only place hull insurance on it when I travel to the bahamas or the Idaho Backcountry. AUA allows temporary hull coverage if you so desire. Give them a call at 800-727-3823, ask for Rob Kamsch.

Rob Ray
Former RV4 owner
Current HR2 driver..
F16 on weekends...
 
smokyray said:
I use AUA insurance in NC. They require EAA membership but rates are very competitive. The Bandit cost $1135 with 50K hull and $520 for comprehensive only. I only place hull insurance on it when I travel to the bahamas or the Idaho Backcountry. AUA allows temporary hull coverage if you so desire. Give them a call at 800-727-3823, ask for Rob Kamsch.

Rob Ray
Former RV4 owner
Current HR2 driver..
F16 on weekends...
Click to expand...
Hi Rob,

You sold the bandit?
 
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