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DeltaRomeo

DeltaRomeo

doug reeves: unfluencer
Staff member
I received the following email from Dave Gamble, which led to the creation of this new section. Thanks for the idea, Dave! dr


"I?ve been thinking that it would be nice to have a section that addresses ongoing maintenance issues. I?m not a builder, I bought an already flying RV-6. I am by no means alone - as you undoubtedly know there is a huge market of people like me that wanted an RV for its flying qualities, but either cannot or will not dedicate the time and energy to build one. Many of us are also somewhat new at performing the high degree of maintenance that an experimental allows us to. For example, I need to change my tires and brakes, and having never done so I have some questions, some as pedestrian as simply knowing how to jack the plane safely. It would be nice if there was a section in the forums where we could ask and answer questions that aren?t directly related to building."
Dave Gamble - http://N466PG.blogspot.com



​
 
Thanks!

Thanks Doug!

One of the reasons I felt comfortable (or at least not totally petrified) in buying an already flying RV was the huge peer-level support available when I inevitably had maintenance questions that would have previously been answered by my AP on my "store bought" plane.

The problem I've been having is not finding someone to help or answer questions as there are a lot of RV owners in my area, but rather it was the time it sometimes took to find someone to ask. With access to hundreds more owners, it's also more likely that someone that has had the same question will be able to share their experience.
 
Non builder owner maintenance

I am just looking for clarification on what a non builder, i.e. no repairman certificate, can do in the way of maintenance on their plane. I have heard two extremes, a) only work allowed in the FARs by owners of spam cans. All other work must be done by A&P. b) anything you want up to and including engine swaps, new instrument panel etc. just complete log entries sign with your pilot?s certificate number. Only need for A&P is annual condition inspection. I suspect the truth is somewhere in between.

Regards John
 
I don't have the regs in front of me, but I believe that work on an experimental can be done by anyone but the annual inspection must be done by either the person with the repairman certificate for that plane or by an AP. (IA not required). Someone verify this, please.
As for major modifications, depending on the airworthiness certificate your plane has, they may be done but under different scenarios. With the old certificate, major modifications can be done but require a new test period, and possibly an inspection, as dictated by the FAA or a DAR. If you have the newer certificate, major modifications can be done and the builder can make the appropriate entries in the log and fly a 5 hour test period. No FAA intervention required.
I ran into this when I did an OH on my engine and changed from FP to CS prop. I had the older certificate and the FSDO actually helped me fill out the forms to change to the newer type airworthiness certificate. I guess they figured it was easier for them.
 
sf3543 said:
I don't have the regs in front of me, but I believe that work on an experimental can be done by anyone but the annual inspection must be done by either the person with the repairman certificate for that plane or by an AP. (IA not required). Someone verify this, please.
As for major modifications, depending on the airworthiness certificate your plane has, they may be done but under different scenarios. With the old certificate, major modifications can be done but require a new test period, and possibly an inspection, as dictated by the FAA or a DAR. If you have the newer certificate, major modifications can be done and the builder can make the appropriate entries in the log and fly a 5 hour test period. No FAA intervention required.

It is not related to the Airworthiness Certificate, It is related to the aircrafts operating limitations. There are different requirements depending on when the operation limitations were issued. If you have older ones that require contacting the FAA for any major change, as in SF3543's case, you can request for them to be ammended to the latest standard.

As for repairs and maint. a nonbuilder/owner can do anything as mentioned by SF3543. Even to the extreem of totally rebuilding the airplane after it got wrecked in a landing accident while flying home after purchasing it. The only requirements would be that the required condition inspection interval is not yet expired and that no major changes were completed during the rebuild (unless you have the new operating limitations that would allow you to put the airplane back in Phase 1 flight test mode to prove the airworthiness of the modifications). Also, appropriate log book enties should be done for all repairs that were completed, and the work should be done to the standards of FAA A.C.43-13.

This is all possible because the very first paragraph of FAR part 43 (the part that regulates maint and repair of certificated aircraft) says "This part does not apply to any aircraft for which an experimental airworthiness certificate has been issued".

This means that the airplanes repairs will not be inspected by a certificated mechanic or repairman until the next condition inspection is due. It may not seem like something the FAA would allow, but that is the way it is and I am always hopeful no one does anything to make them think it needs to be changed.

Scott M
Click to expand...
 
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RVator subscription helps

I just thought I'd add to this thread that the "RVator", and the collated," 20 Years of the RVator", have helped answer many of my questions regarding routine mantanence, and minor repairs on RV aircraft.

I inhereted about twelve years worth of "RVators" when I bought my already flying RV6A.

Cheers.
 
Maintenance on Experimental

John:

Anyone can do repairs and maintence to an Experimental. The Repairman certificate or A&P is all that is needed to do the once a year "Condition" Inspection. If a Major Change is made, you need to check your Operating Limitations. Anyone can do the change but you may need the FAA to approve it before you can fly again.

http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/selling/nonbuilder_maintenance.html


Gary A. Sobek
RV-6, N157GS, O-320 Hartzell
EAA TC
FAA A&P
FAA AB DAR


john kelley said:
I am just looking for clarification on what a non builder, i.e. no repairman certificate, can do in the way of maintenance on their plane. I have heard two extremes, a) only work allowed in the FARs by owners of spam cans. All other work must be done by A&P. b) anything you want up to and including engine swaps, new instrument panel etc. just complete log entries sign with your pilot?s certificate number. Only need for A&P is annual condition inspection. I suspect the truth is somewhere in between.

Regards John
Click to expand...
 
new operating limitations

When were the new operating limitations implemented? My plane was registered in June of 2003, how would one know if they have the old or new certificate?

Thanks,

Jim
RV-6 purchased, flying
Rv-8 wings
 
It should be written in your operating limitations. If it isn't, then you can have it changed. I originally registered my plane in 1997 and did the changes in 2001, I think. The FAA actually helped me fill out the forms and issued a new airworthiness certificate with the new operating limitations.
You'll need to call your FSDO and ask them how they want you to proceed, but that's how they did it here in San Antonio.
 
new operating limitations

Thanks for the reply. I am not at the airport so don't have access to the operating limitations. What is it that they write so you know if you have the new or the old op lims?

Thanks,

Jim
 
OpLims

Jim;

There is no way to tell what you have that I know of without going back and comparing it to old versions of FAA Order 8130.2. I became an AB DAR almost 2 years ago. We are presently on 8130.2F Change 1. There have been 3 changes in the last 3 years.

FAA Orders can be found at: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

Here is a link to what the EAA says about changing your OpLims. You need to be an EAA member to access this link.
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/govt/articles/How to Convert to.html#TopOfPage

If you follow the link to the current Order above, it has the verbage that the new OpLims will have.

Gary A. Sobek
RV-6, N157GS, 1,777+ hours flying
EAA TC
FAA A&P
FAA AB DAR (22 completed inspections in past 19 months.)


jim said:
Thanks for the reply. I am not at the airport so don't have access to the operating limitations. What is it that they write so you know if you have the new or the old op lims?

Thanks,

Jim
Click to expand...
 
op lims

Thanks Gary, I will pull the op lims that I have in the plane and compare to what is on the EAA site and FAA site.

Jim
 
op lims

Gary,

I checked the EAA site and it appears that the new regs at least, regarding changing the op lims, went in to effect around November of 2004. That was what I was interested in. I need to get the new op lims for my plane if I want to make any significant changes to the plane, followed by a short test phase, then operate without re-inspection.

Thanks,

Jim
 
Question about log books.

First, I really appreciate this thread as it has clarified many issues that had not been clear to me in the areas of maintenance, repairs, and the annual condition inspection.

I believe at some point in the thread, someone expressed the opinion that logging more details & info is better than logging less. Along this line, I want to keep detailed records and find the small commercial log books for engine and airframe very restrictive. I'd like to have larger pages for more detail possibly up to 8.5x11. Most people don't seem to carry the maintenance log books in the plane anyways, unless needed.

So, the question is, are there any legality issues or requirements for the logbooks, size, format, binding, etc? I realize that regardless of format, a real signature is required.

Thanks,
bb
 
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