What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

RV-12 Performance

M

mfazio

I'm New Here
My apologies to the list if this has been posted before but I did not see a thread with this info.

I was looking at Van's website and did not find any performance numbers listed for the RV-12. I am trying to compare the S-19 and 601XL but it is difficult finding all the same apples to make a fair comparison.

Mike
 
mfazio said:
My apologies to the list if this has been posted before but I did not see a thread with this info.

I was looking at Van's website and did not find any performance numbers listed for the RV-12. I am trying to compare the S-19 and 601XL but it is difficult finding all the same apples to make a fair comparison.

Mike
Click to expand...

I think that is largely because they aren't done with testing, yet. At least, not on the production design, which has different wings and (if I recall correctly) a slightly different tail.

One thing to keep in mind is that the -12 is designed around the Rotax engine. I'm not familiar with the Rans plane, but the 601XL can be powered by virtually any 80-120hp engine that you can find.

The best that I could get out of Van's is an estimated Vne of 150kts, with the other numbers in line with the limits of the LSA class.

I did ask when they would be changing the -12's web page to be more in line with those of the other models that is, with specs, performance and...say a picture of the currently produced plane(!). He seemed to have no clue about what I was talking about.
 
not sure about performance numbers but

S-19->wings not removable
RV-12->wings removable for storage
601XL->wings known to fold during flight:eek:
 
Thanks - I am half way through building a rudder for the zodiac 601xl and there have been a few accidents with the design lately - has me a bit freaked out about flying in one now. I think it is a great design and probably safe but I'm afraid I would build one and end up worrying so much I wouldn't enjoy it.

I do like the Jabiru engine but doesn't look like there are plans for the S-12 to use that engine. The RANS is a nice aircraft but heavy. I leaned towards the Zodiac because I am ready to start building and it has been out for quite some time. I might have to wait a year or two for the S-12 and RANS to work out any initial problems.

Thanks again,

Mike
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
are at

http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/n412rv_photos.htm

More photos are available of the new brochure at

http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/12_snf_08.pdf
Click to expand...

Thanks! Yeah, I've seen that they have photos of the PoK RV-12 available on the site, but the featured photos are all of the original version. That just strikes me as odd. Aside from the addition of the Sun'n'Fun flyer, the information on the -12 has been stuck in limbo. Heck, even the "lead time" page hasn't been updated since 4/4/08, and is wildly inaccurate for -12 wing kit shipping information.

Hopefully, they're spending all of their time finalizing the kit sub-assemblies and testing the airframe :D
 
performance numbers

lawspud said:
I think that is largely because they aren't done with testing, yet. At least, not on the production design, which has different wings and (if I recall correctly) a slightly different tail.

Vans is selling wing kits so I would assume that part of the design is frozen. The wing design from what I have gathered here though leads me to wonder if that is truly fact? Was there some question about the design not meeting the LSA criteria for stall speed and that led to the redesign. I would also like to see published performance numbers such as the stall speed before making my decision to purchase a partial kit.
Click to expand...
 
mfazio said:
Thanks - I am half way through building a rudder for the zodiac 601xl and there have been a few accidents with the design lately - has me a bit freaked out about flying in one now. I think it is a great design and probably safe but I'm afraid I would build one and end up worrying so much I wouldn't enjoy it.

Thanks again,

Mike
Click to expand...

I was talking to a CFI that has experience with the 601 recently. He says that the big problem with the 601 is its pitch sensitivity. If a pilot is not careful, the aircraft can get away from him (primarily in rough air, flaps down as I recall). It can go into a dive, then because of over reaction to correct, it can end up in a severe climb attitude. This stresses the wings and creates the failure. One or both of the flaps "leave the aircraft", then a wing (or both wings) fail.

It apparently happened to him (when a student let one get away from him) but he was able to catch it before damage was done. He indicated that if a pilot is aware and avoids the situation, the aircraft can be flown safely. There is one in his training fleet and he apparently flies it quite often.

Otherwise, he says it is a “fun” plane to fly. “A little fighter plane”.

After all, there are a bunch of them in the air with a very low failure rate.
 
Last edited:
Dirtbos - Yes, you are correct. Zenith has issues a an optional fix to limit elevator travel to 15% (or something like that) to avoid overcontrolling by the pilot.

Mike
 
mfazio said:
My apologies to the list if this has been posted before but I did not see a thread with this info.

I was looking at Van's website and did not find any performance numbers listed for the RV-12. I am trying to compare the S-19 and 601XL but it is difficult finding all the same apples to make a fair comparison.

Mike
Click to expand...
The performance of most LSA are dictated LSA speed limits. In order to keep the speed below 120kt ISA, SL, level flight, the prop pitch is adjusted or chosen by the manufacturer. This sets climb and takeoff performance. Also, the manufacturer may choose to have a climb pitch prop for aircraft that are going to be trainers. Other aerodynamic tricks (e.g., minimum flap position) may be used to keep drag up to limit speed to the magic 120 kt. For example. the CT routinely will cruise at 135kt with a 2-blade prop and the -12deg flaps that are allowed in Europe.

Cub-type LSA are slightly different. They have so much drag that they won't get to 120kt with the Rotax and proabaly not with the Jabiru.

My guess is that the -12 will exceed 120kt if the prop were optimized to give near max RPM (5500 is max continuous) at ISA SL WOT. There are plenty of ground-adjust props for the rotax out there that would allow you to repitch for cruise or climb as necessary. You would probably still get close to 1000 fpm at MGTW and ISA/SL.

Of course, this must all be viewed within the limits of the LSA certification process unless you build as ex-AB.

TODR
 
mfazio said:
Dirtbos - Yes, you are correct. Zenith has issues a an optional fix to limit elevator travel to 15% (or something like that) to avoid overcontrolling by the pilot.

Mike
Click to expand...

It is a good thing that they have finally addressed that issue. I am going to wait for official performance numbers for the RV-12 before making the final decision. You just cannot beat the features of the 12 though. Trailer ability and home storage would save a great deal of cash. If the "numbers" push the speed envelope, I'll go with the 12.

I took a check ride in a Sportcruiser and it was a delightful aircraft to fly. I am assuming that the 12 will be comparable. The SC is an easy plane to land and the 912 is super quiet (compared to the Cherokees that I have flown).

I hope to get up to Van's the fly in the 12 soon. Has anyone out there flown the 12?

Mike
 
mfazio said:
Thanks - I am half way through building a rudder for the zodiac 601xl and there have been a few accidents with the design lately - has me a bit freaked out about flying in one now. I think it is a great design and probably safe but I'm afraid I would build one and end up worrying so much I wouldn't enjoy it.

I do like the Jabiru engine but doesn't look like there are plans for the S-12 to use that engine. The RANS is a nice aircraft but heavy. I leaned towards the Zodiac because I am ready to start building and it has been out for quite some time. I might have to wait a year or two for the S-12 and RANS to work out any initial problems.

Thanks again,

Mike
Click to expand...

Look into BRS?
 
BRS - Yes, I have considered that option. But I figure that if I need a BRS to feel confident in the aircraft I should probably be building another design. I am not entirely sold on the effectiveness of the BRS as well. I would consider the BRS for catastophic failures only and from what I have read about some structural failures the pilot may not have been able to deploy a chute even if he had one. The airspeed also seems to be a critical component to a successful deployment, if you have a catasrophic failure I would assume airspeed is going to be an issue.

Just a thought, looking at the -12 structure I did not really see a convenient place to install a BRS if you wanted to. Curious as to what others thought.
 
The BRS will go in the baggage compartment and blow up thru the turtle deck area and be anchored to the landing gear/main spar area. Already done the measurements and rough weight and balance numbers. Will be approx. 40lbs installed judging by other similar installs I have done.

All this is subject to BRS and Van's input when I get to that point.
 
Dirtbos said:
I was talking to a CFI that has experience with the 601 recently. He says that the big problem with the 601 is its pitch sensitivity.

There is one in his training fleet and he apparently flies it quite often.
Click to expand...

This CFI has an experimental aircraft in his fleet to train students?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top