Thielert in trouble

"Hamburg/Germany - Today the executive board of Thielert Aircraft Engines GmbH, Lichtenstein, Saxony/Germany, has filed for the opening of insolvency at the county court Chemnitz concerning the assets of the company due to immediate illiquidity. Thielert Aircraft Engines GmbH is a full subsidiary of Thielert AG.

The going concern of Thielert Aircraft Engines GmbH can only be ensured permanently by restructuring activities with the support of investors, due to the fact that the Holding Thielert AG is not capable to do so anymore. As a consequence Thielert Aircraft Engines GmbH aims for an insolvency plan proceeding. The insolvency plan shall be presented to the court and all creditors by the new appointed executive board and the interim insolvency administrator until the opening of the insolvency proceeding. A successful continuation of business in the insolvency plan proceeding is required."

That is available at http://web.thielert.com/typo3/index.php?id=534&backPID=534&tt_news=1211&L=1


And if that was not enough:
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...minal-Investigations-and-a-Cash-Crunch-04801/

Sorry to hear this but am not surprised. Hope they can get this back on the rails or a lot of Diamond aircraft will be looking for Lycoming retrofit kits and the Cessna diesels will be too.

Gotta put out reliable hardware or the warranty replacements will kill you.

This is a real bummer!

I was looking forward to some other engine choices for the future.

BTW, don't tell George. Isn't the Thielert a modified MB engine?

Another Corporate Scandal?

It's sad when a company fails due to bad decisions by management, it's really sad when a company fails due to potentially criminal acts by Management.

from AVWeb:

"The supervisory board of Thielert AG, the German company that manufactures Thielert diesel aircraft engines and also owns Texas-based Superior Air Parts said in a statement today it has dismissed "with cause" company founder Frank Thielert and cancelled his employment contract in light of preliminary findings of a criminal investigation into the company's financial affairs. The board also dismissed Chief Financial Officer Roswitha Grosser and cancelled her contract."


http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/MoreTroubleFor_Thielert_197722-1.html

This is not good. I hope someone picks up the pieces and continue producing this engine.

Superior?

I wonder what this is going to mean for Superior? I am no businessman, so I have no idea what happens to a company when the parent company files for bankruptcy.....and they are in different countries!

Superior is a subsidiary of AG, not Thielert Aircraft Engines GmbH. That said, I'm not sure what that will do to their supply of parts. I guess I'll have to be very careful with my new IO-360...

Thielert does machining on many Superior parts I understand. This is not good for anybody except maybe Lycoming. Just the cloud over all this is going to hurt Superior unfortunately.

Superior's website says it's owned by Thielert AG. When you click on the link, it takes you to thielert.com, where it shows a pic of the diesel...
Not sure who owns who, but I hear thru the engine builder grapevine that Superior has been having a hard time supplying engines lately (since or before early 2008). I too hope all is well.

No problem

flion said:

Superior is a subsidiary of AG, not Thielert Aircraft Engines GmbH. That said, I'm not sure what that will do to their supply of parts. I guess I'll have to be very careful with my new IO-360...

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No problem.... ECI and Lycoming parts will fit your Superior IO-360.... that's how they made it...

gil A

...now warranty issues are another ball of wax....:rolleyes:

No worries Superior engines will be fine one way or another

flion said:

Superior is a subsidiary of AG, not Thielert Aircraft Engines GmbH. That said, I'm not sure what that will do to their supply of parts. I guess I'll have to be very careful with my new IO-360...

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No worry you know the interchangeability of parts of ECI and Lycoming is basically 100% as Gil said. There are some proprietary cylinder finishes or piston ring treatments I think, but nothing that can't be changed out. That is the beauty of Lycs, standardized configuration and part compliance. Sometimes not changing is good.

So did the Diesel take them down or is just the economy? I have not followed the Diesel development. There where some issues?

I'll tell you the new lightweight version of the venerable 200 Continental that's going in the Cessna LSA "sky catcher", will hit the sky with out problems. ("Sky Catcher" I throw up a little in the back of throat when I say that name, totally absurd, awful name in my opinion. )

gmcjetpilot said:

So did the Diesel take them down or is just the economy? I have not followed the Diesel development. There where some issues?

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With Cessna signing on the dotted line recently, I don't think lack of orders was a problem and maybe the engines weren't either. Have to wait for the story to play out.

I've been following the diesel engine since its inception and had a hard time believing the initial press hype on it. Hmmm, a 1.7L diesel able to churn out 135hp for 2400 hours- seemed a bit unlikely to me. The TBR never actually reached 2400 hours as it turned out and in fact few engines made it past 750 hours according to my sources, many were removed with about half THAT time, usually with high oil consumption as the culprit.

There were other common problems with the gearbox clutch which is a silly design IMO and some FADEC, alternator and wiring harness problems. Thielert had to pay for all of this under warranty. Given the $200M development costs and the number of engines sold, unit pricing plus the huge warranty costs, the numbers don't add up to be profitable. Maybe they had other monies available but this foray was far from a success in my view.

I've looked at these engines in detail and they are just too complicated. A more conservative design with more displacement, less boost, mechanical injection ( I don't believe I said that ) and a proper TV absorber might have meant better reliability. They had too many new things on one engine to perfect.

I salute their vision and their drive to get into the market but the certified engine one is a hard one as others have learned.

I hope they develop a plan to keep things going and improve the engines so that they meet the reliability and longevity of land based diesels. It is a cool concept.

Love my Lycoming!

rv6ejguy said:

Sorry to hear this but am not surprised. Hope they can get this back on the rails or a lot of Diamond aircraft will be looking for Lycoming retrofit kits and the Cessna diesels will be too.

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Diamond is working on developing another automotive-based diesel engine. As near as I can tell, they are not completely happy with the Thielert engine, and hope to eventually replace it with their own certificated engine. Their engine would, they believe, benefit from the experience with the Thielert engine, and would have higher power.

Diamond press release from 2007.

Interesting Kevin. Glad that Diamond is working on something new. My talks with one of the Diamond service center reps here said that Diamond was actually taking care of many of the Thielert warranty issues directly to keep their customers happy because Thielert was doing a such a poor job with warranty claims especially on supplying the parts in a timely fashion.

Others were saying weeks to get replacement engines from Thielert. Bad customer service is the start of a bad ending for many companies.

I wish Diamond the best. They are very progressive.

Nervously awaiting my engine

I don't know what this means for Superior either, but Eagle Engines is waiting for the parts kit to build my IO-360. There have been delays because the cylinders weren't available. My latest update was that Superior should be shipping the kit by mid-May, but I'm a little nervous after reading the Thielert info. I just hope Superior will still be able to continue filling orders. I'd hate to lose my engine or deposit.

I think all this news is kind of ironic since they just had a big article about them in the AOPA magazine. Never mentioning any troubles! My how things change in a couple of months.

TSwezey said:

I think all this news is kind of ironic since they just had a big article about them in the AOPA magazine. Never mentioning any troubles! My how things change in a couple of months.

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Flying Magazine also just had a big article on the Thielert 172, never mentioning anything about how the engines were performing in service. I don't think they dig too deep researching these articles. When a shiny new plane shows up, they fly it and write a shiny article on it. Of course there may have been little knowledge about the impending financial doom but I find the Flying and AOPA articles pretty sugar coated. I sent a letter to the editor of Flying saying just that a couple weeks ago. We'll see if they print it.