Precision Airmotive AD Fix

I have a FI system covered under the AD for the fuel servo valve cover. Okay, I need to replace the gasket under the 1" hex plug and torque it to 90-100 inch pounds. That is straight forward enough, so I call Precision Airmotive, LLC and talk to the engineer who says he would be glad to give me a $.70 gasket for free if I can give him the serial number of the unit. Well, all of the paperwork and the airplane is out at the airport 35 miles away. I say I would rather just buy 2 than spend an hour driving and $8 in fuel and he agreed. He transfers my call to the sales manager only to have her say they have a strict $200 minimum order policy. No matter what I say to her I cannot get a gasket to "permanently" fix the AD unless I spend $200 for a $.70 gasket. Now there is good customer service.

Some days I should just stay in bed.

Dead and buried it looks like

Right next to customer service.

I'd have thought you'd get couple in the mail for the asking along with an apology for the trouble but... that's just me.

Lets see here... www.airflowperformance.com .....

lucky333 said:

Right next to customer service.

I'd have thought you'd get couple in the mail for the asking along with an apology for the trouble but... that's just me.

Lets see here... www.airflowperformance.com .....

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You got that right! I take the time to call and make sure my unit is covered in their MANDITORY AD. You would think they would just mail a couple of gaskets, one for me and one to have for the next guy I talk to at the airport, but instead I get the "$200 minimum order" story. I really thought she was kidding, but she wasn't! I could not have made up a more stupid scenario if I tried.

Common sense is dead in American business.

My head hurts.

Talking to the next guy...

You would think they would just mail a couple of gaskets, one for me and one to have for the next guy I talk to at the airport

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And just what do they think you'll be telling the next guy instead of giving him a 70 cent washer..

Its amazing how so many companies will spend mucho $$$ on advertising, air show booths, websites etc etc to secure customers and not realize how cheap it is to lose BIG when they whiff on something that in this case would be trivial to do.. make a happy customer and get an unpaid salesman / supporter to boot. For a lousy 70 cents. Fortunately, there are many suppliers here that do better.

I'd escalate this over the heads of the sales troll. Maybe there is a bug in their support graph. Perhaps a phone call or email with a link to this developing thread even.. After all. I haven't bought my FI yet but, this doesn't look good so far..

Good luck and thanks for the heads up.

BTW what the heck are you driving for $4/hr??

lucky333 said:

And just what do they think you'll be telling the next guy instead of giving him a 70 cent washer..

Its amazing how so many companies will spend mucho $$$ on advertising, air show booths, websites etc etc to secure customers and not realize how cheap it is to lose BIG when they whiff on something that in this case would be trivial to do.. make a happy customer and get an unpaid salesman / supporter to boot. For a lousy 70 cents. Fortunately, there are many suppliers here that do better.

I'd escalate this over the heads of the sales troll. Maybe there is a bug in their support graph. Perhaps a phone call or email with a link to this developing thread even.. After all. I haven't bought my FI yet but, this doesn't look good so far..

Good luck and thanks for the heads up.

BTW what the heck are you driving for $4/hr??

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100% right on.

I drive a Dodge diesel pick up. Get about 23 MPG I figured $4. But actually, my time (2 hours), 3 phone calls, 1 fax request, 4 e-mails, time spent here (although I'm here alot ) and I still don't have a gasket on order, all added up? $4,568.00, and still no gasket. Not to mention the fact my plane is OOC. (Out of Commision)

lucky333 said:

Lets see here... www.airflowperformance.com .....

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An outstanding company. Excellent customer service, free EGT data analysis to balance the injectors, private injector balancing sessions, Injector 101 classes, ect, ect.

OK, I want your job..

..actually, my time (2 hours), 3 phone calls, 1 fax request, 4 e-mails, time spent here (although I'm here alot ) and I still don't have a gasket on order, all added up? $4,568.00

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Actually, I'm self employed too and those little asides sure do add up, don't they?

lucky333 said:

....Its amazing how so many companies will spend mucho $$$ on advertising, air show booths, websites etc etc to secure customers and not realize how cheap it is to lose BIG when they whiff on something that in this case would be trivial to do.. make a happy customer and get an unpaid salesman / supporter to boot. For a lousy 70 cents. Fortunately, there are many suppliers here that do better.....

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So true....I'll never understand that. It directly impacts the bottom line.
Haven't had any such treatment from Airflow Performance guys.....they've been great!

If you think a $200 minimum is bad from Precision...price out a servo diaphragm from them. Then price the equivalent diaphragm from Don for his system and see what it is. It goes without saying I would never buy a Silverhawk for this reason.

Well good news!

After 4 phone calls, a fax, 4 e-mails (all unanswered) a trip to the airport to get the serial number, calling back again to give them serial number, and then two return calls from them to confirm the serial number, they have finally agreed to send a $.70 gasket for free.

Seems to me it would have been more efficient just to send out a gasket to anyone that calls and asks for one. Then again, it would have been more efficient for them to torque the 1" hex nut properly in the first place.

My experience was better.

I called, serial number given, address taken, gasket on the way. No money mentioned. Mattituck also agreed to send one if I ran into difficulties.

The gasket material from a different supplier shrinks when heated, that is why the torque did not hold.

David

odlee said:

The gasket material from a different supplier shrinks when heated, that is why the torque did not hold.

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I was told the hex nut has been reported loose on some engines before the engine was ever run, that it was not the gasket, it was improper touque. The 90-100 inch pounds is double what was called for before.

But again, that is what I heard, I do not know that as fact, nor do I care. For me the company was rediculous to work with and I will never use, install, or recommend a Precision Airmotive fuel injection system again.

Precision Airmotive

Hi guys:

Just a comment regarding the AD issue with Precision. Two weeks ago the Twin Cities RV Builders hosted our spring meeting with over 70 RV builders in attendance. Our guest speaker was Alan Jesmer who is one of their Product Support reps. He gave a very interesting, entertaining, and educational talk on FI systems and their new Eagle EMS system. Alan made a special trip to Minneapolis for our meeting and I cannot speak highly enough of him or the local support that we have received from Precision. No doubt, there are always circumstances that result in less than ideal outcomes, but I truly believe they are handling the AD issue the best that they can. Alan reiterated many times that if there are ANY issues regarding their customer service, PLEASE contact him directly at [email protected]. I believe he will do everything in his power to rectify the situation.

Precision treated me great, always has.

I have to agree with Doug and David here.

I was unable to download the serial number list from their website (my computer problem not theirs) so I contacted them by phone. Gave them my serial number and and they gladly looked it up. Informed me mine was not one of the ones affected by the problem. Later I was able to download the list and looked it up myself verifying they were correct.

I guess the key is to have your serial number available to determine if yours is affected or not.

Sometimes I'm disappointed with the board when people get into trashing someone or a company. Especially when someone creates their own issue. Another one that comes to mind is the Partain Shipping trashing. Someone tried to do this after Tony had bent over backwards to accommodate him, yet he still wasn't satisfied with his results so he trashes Tony on this board. Tony is one of the easiest most accommodating companies I've dealt with. Seems like a similar issue at work here.

After 4 phone calls, a fax, 4 e-mails (all unanswered) Sorry I've dealt with Precision many times and I have a real hard time believing that.

Precision Airmotive is dealing with the AD in a responsible manner and is an excellent company to deal with.

So now I'm sure I've set myself up for a trashing. So be it. As a business owner I just had to say my piece as I have never had any problems dealing with Precision Airmotive. Sometimes their are problem customers.

Ted

Ted RV8 said:

So now I'm sure I've set myself up for a trashing. So be it. As a business owner I just had to say my piece as I have never had any problems dealing with Precision Airmotive. Sometimes their are problem customers.

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No trashing here. I'm a long time business owner too. You're very correct! You can have hundreds or thousands of completely satisfied and happy customers, but one person can go all out to trash you. And usually, they're misinformed! At least MY "one gripe" out of thousands of happy customers was...

L.Adamson

Happy customer.

I contacted Precision Air by email on the AD, sending them my unit serial number. I rcvd a quick email response saying a new gasket was on the way. It came in the mail within the week. No charge.

Thanks Precision Air.

Gary Bricker

"Price subject to change according to customers attitude"

What's the beef?

I can't believe all the trashing of Precision. I downloaded the info on the net and determined mine was affected. The rep at Sun-N-Fun had a bagful of gaskets that he passed out on request and only asked that I promise to send in the serial number when I was done. I then filled out a form on their website that was a request to compensate me for my time and they promptly sent me a check for $100. I really don't know how a company can be more responsive or responsible than that.

Grandy said:

I can't believe all the trashing of Precision. I downloaded the info on the net and determined mine was affected. The rep at Sun-N-Fun had a bagful of gaskets that he passed out on request and only asked that I promise to send in the serial number when I was done. I then filled out a form on their website that was a request to compensate me for my time and they promptly sent me a check for $100. I really don't know how a company can be more responsive or responsible than that.

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If they would have done that I would have been happy.

When I called them, and said I HAD to give them a serial number or pay for the gasket. I decided rather than waste $10 in fuel driving out to the airport & back I would buy a .70 gasket. They would not let me buy one until I paid the $200 min order. I don't care how you try to justify it that is poor customer service. I don't know how more unresponsive a company can be to an AD they created.

Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, by me bring this to the forefront they decided to change their policy and hand out the gaskets for free? I started this in March, and got my gasket before SnF. Of course they changed their attitude after the bad press. Without me making noise they would not have been so accommodating.

I bring it to the attention of VAF and get slammed for a bad attitude. Thanks guys.

It's also equally possible that you happened to get hold of the one nimrod at their office who was unaware of the "give it away free" attitude by the company, and was simply following standard business practices, and that person subsequently was "instructed".

airguy said:

It's also equally possible that you happened to get hold of the one nimrod at their office who was unaware of the "give it away free" attitude by the company, and was simply following standard business practices, and that person subsequently was "instructed".

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True, I totally agree, but the major complaint here is about my attitude.

Seems to me the senerio you illistrated has to do with Precision Airmotive not being prepared (not informing their employees) before the end users of their product (me, the customer) called in (per their AD) requesting the replacement a $.70 gasket they (customer service) want me to replace in the 1st place.

I think this thread has run it's course.

Aside from all the fuss over a 70 cent gasket, which system works the best, Airflow Performance or Precision?

Is it possible that they might want the serial # so they can keep track of the units they are supplying gaskets for?? Also, has anyone asked what the reimburstment is if you fill out the form? It might be worth the time to fill out and ask them for the labor. They have always treated me very well. My gasket is here and going on next week. It might be also that they are trying to avoid a lawsuit by controling the necessary documetation of AD complience. I say give them a break!!! Larry

You forgot to mention, Larry, that when you finally gave us your S/N, we found that you were not affected by the AD at all. Still, sorry for your trouble.

Silver Hawk said:

You forgot to mention, Larry, that when you finally gave us your S/N, we found that you were not affected by the AD at all. Still, sorry for your trouble.

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Again, you just don't care what your customer want do you. When I talked to YOUR engineer I explained to him I did not want to drive 35 miles just to get the serial number for a $.70 gasket and he agreed. He said it was smarter just to buy a gasket and replace it than take a chance. On the advice of YOUR engineer I was told to replace it. He was a very pleasant and reasonable guy. I told him I will buy a couple just to have them on hand for the next airplane I get. When he switched me to YOUR order department I was told the minimum order was $200. No exceptions. When I tried to explain to the lady at the order desk that this was for YOUR AD she said; "NO EXCEPTIONS not even for the AD, the engineer doesn't know what he is talking about."

Now you hand the gaskets out like candy at airshows with absolutely no serial number.

If you give someone this much trouble over a $.70 gasket what are you gonna do when an RV /experimental aircraft builder calls and needs replacement parts under $200? When a builder "balances" the injector system (BTW, every injector system needs to be balanced) and need a couple of new .028 injector restrictors you are gonna charge them $200 for a $30 reducer?

Airflow Performance has no minimum order.
http://www.airflowperformance.com/

Thank you for finally responding to my many e-mails and phone calls, but the only thing you are sorry about is the fact that I put this on the Internet for every experimental aircraft builder and potential builder to see, forever.

We do care about what our customers want, that is one reason we started building the Silver Hawk. But we are not set up to sell direct, we do not have enough sales people for that, I am sorry. We only sell though distributors, like Aviall, API, Omaha Airplane Supply, etc. Also, we answered your phone calls and emails, including letting you know your unit was not affected over a month ago.

The reason for the hand outs at Sun and Fun were because this was only for experimental units and our management decided this was the best plan, just for the airshow.

I don't know what you mean by "every injector system needs to be balanced", but the Precision Silver Hawk and the Precision RSA systems do not need to be balanced. They are ready to run when installed, except for idle adjustment, and designed to flow evenly to all cylinders. Also, the nozzles restrictors are not available separately, only as part of a nozzle assembly. I would also be happy to answer any questions that you or any other builders have, by contacting me here at Precision Airmotive.

Peter Nielson
Product Support Mgr.
Precision Airmotive

Silver Hawk said:

I don't know what you mean by "every injector system needs to be balanced", but the Precision Silver Hawk and the Precision RSA systems do not need to be balanced.

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"Balanced" as in "fine tuning", getting the EGT's to peak at the same fuel flow. Due to differences in installation, different engines, etc., the system needs to be "balanced" after installation to get the EGT's to peak at the same time for LOP operations. IMHO all fuel injection systems should be "balanced" or "fine tuned" or at least checked after installation to ensure the cylinders peak at the same fuel flow. The temperature is not important, but when the cylinder peaks is. How is it I'm explaining this to you?

Silver Hawk said:

We do care about what our customers want, that is one reason we started building the Silver Hawk. But we are not set up to sell direct, we do not have enough sales people for that, I am sorry. We only sell though distributors, like Aviall, API, Omaha Airplane Supply, etc. Also, we answered your phone calls and emails, including letting you know your unit was not affected over a month ago.

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Then why do you say in the AD to call your company to obtain the gasket or with any questions? If you can't sell the part to me then why have me call your company? This may make sense to someone, but it makes no sense to me, THE CUSTOMER!

I have yet to receive an e-mail from Precision Airflow.

Silver Hawk said:

Also, the nozzles restrict ors are not available separately, only as part of a nozzle assembly.

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Individual nozzle restrictors are available separately from Airflow Performance along with down-loadable instructions and EGT test charts on how to "Balance a Fuel Injection System". In fact, if you run the test on your engine and send Don Rivera, Airflow Performace the results he will personally recommend what restrictors to use in ANY fuel injection system. Obviously, you are unaware of this customer service feature of your competition. No $200 minimum order here.

Silver Hawk said:

The reason for the hand outs at Sun and Fun were because this was only for experimental units and our management decided this was the best plan, just for the airshow.

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So your management decided that I (the customer, who made the 2,200 mile round trip to SnF) should wait to a get gasket at SnF? I was trying to complete the AD (per your engineer) BEFORE the 2,200 mile trip with your "faulty" fuel injection system on my airplane. You'll give them away for free as a publicity stunt, but when I (the customer) call to BUY one I get a $200 minimum order. Gee thanks, I feel special!

Yep, my attitude is showing again.