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Dangerous fuel valve lever

cleve_thompson

cleve_thompson

Well Known Member
I replaced the original fuel valve lever with the pretty anodized fuel valve lever II from Van's but which can also be ordered from Cleaveland Tools. Instead of having a flat side to match the valve stem, it has a set screw to keep it from turning on the stem. I worried about what would happen if this screw loosened so I put Locktight on the screw.

Well, the unthinkable happened yesterday! When I was switching tanks before landing, the handle moved the valve a short distance and then started slipping. I worked with it and finally got it to more to a detente but I had no idea what the valve was turned to. I was really scared being that I was 10 miles from the nearest airport. I made it but I never want that to happen again!
I have since replace the pretty lever with the old one that I have ground off the nose of and will NEVER look back. I think the potential for a catastrophe using the lever called FUEL VALVE LEVER II in the Van's catalogue is too great! I have discussed this with builder's support at Van's but I don't know what disposition they will make about continuing to stock this level

This is the way the lever is listed in the Van's catalogue. Part number FUEL VALVE LEVER II
Replacement for stock handle on fuel valves supplied in kits. Pointer direction can be set to work with any vintage installation. Red Anodized finish.

There is another listed as Fuel Valve Lever I but was not available when I ordered. It has a flat side but will work only if the valve is plumbed a certain way.
 
I'm not familiar with the Fuel Valve Lever II, but I have the Fuel Valve Lever I (the other one in the catalog.) This model has both a flat AND a set screw on the flat, sort of the belt-and-suspenders approach. You might give that one a look.

Van's catalog says that it can only be ordered with the flat in one direction, however if you contact the manufacturer directly, he has made them in the past with the flat on the opposite side, for those of us who plumbed ours opposite of the Van's plans.
 
whew!

Good move, Cleve...glad you made it OK. Is the set screw designed to engage the flat part of the stem? If so, after it's put on, you can "stake" the set screw with a center punch, I believe.

Regards,
 
Hey Cleve,
When are you gonna come up to Perry? Anyway, I have been using the original Vans lever without an issue. I switch tanks often (about every 20 mins) and have never noticed anything change as far as the valve is concerned. I'm sure you will be fine with it.
How is everything else going with your 9A?
 
Answer

My answer is to loctite the first set screw and the install a second to secure. Another option is to purchase a longer set screw and wire tie or stop nut it.
 
whoopla

good move on installing the old one. glad to hear it was uneventful return to the airport. this was a forseeable problem. id hate to know i made it and dozens more like it.:eek: no way jose. these valves get difficult to move and the design is not robust enough to overcome this.
 
The instructions are very clear about using RED (permanent) Loctite. I think a second set screw is a good idea too.
 
Grind one

Isn't the easy answer to grind your own flat in the correct location on the valve stem?

No flat and a set screw is definitely poor design practise.

gil A
 
az_gila said:
Isn't the easy answer to grind your own flat in the correct location on the valve stem?

No flat and a set screw is definitely poor design practise.

gil A
Click to expand...

There is already a flat on the stem of Van's selector as noted in the original post. Just too much to ask of a little setscrew.
 
Gil,

There is a flat on the stem... The set can back off. Another observation is if the set starts to back off the handle should get sloppy when moving from one selection to the another. This should be somewhat obvious before failure. Also it should be noted that you can install a stop on the other side too.



az_gila said:
Isn't the easy answer to grind your own flat in the correct location on the valve stem?

No flat and a set screw is definitely poor design practise.

gil A
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Mark

I marked the stem for perfect alignment on this plans built stock valve
img1121svx1.jpg
 
Last edited:
FrankK90989 said:
I marked the stem.
img1121svx1.jpg
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm a little dense, but if I got in this plane I would wonder.....does the end of the handle or the index mark on the handle point toward the desired tank?

I am of the opinion the handle needs a very obvious mark (red paint on the indicating end of the handle would be great!) to show the proper indication if there is a remote chance it could be confused.

The safety ramifications of confusion in this area cannot be overstated.
 
Last edited:
I understand your thought pattern... he did at least grind off the pointer. A painted end is a good thought!




Sam Buchanan said:
Maybe I'm a little dense, but if I got in this plane I would wonder.....does the end of the handle or the index mark on the handle point toward the desired tank?

I am of the opinion the handle needs a very obvious mark (red paint on the indicating end of the handle would be great!) to show the proper indication if there is a remote chance it could be confused.

The safety ramifications of confusion in this area cannot be overstated.
Click to expand...
 
Andair

I had the Vans valve installed, but was rather doubtful of it from the start. After looking at it installed for several months, I recently ordered and installed the Andair valve ($205 from Vans). I kept saying to myself that $205 seemed like a lot of money for a valve that just looked better, but after having it in my hands and installing it in my plane, I'm SO glad I spend the extra money!
 
Not scared at all on this end? Install in the proper manner and move on. This set screw would have to be loose for a while to not turn the valve!
 
If it ain't broke...

Is the only advantage to the type II lever appearance? If that's the only plus and I have to give up the cast-in flat of the cheaper lever, I just can't see the point. Maybe a pair of vice grips should be velcro'd to the glare shield just in case :p
 
what would be a good method for the stock handle

to maybe silhouette it on the plate?
or to gring the handle to look more like a pointer? paint an arrow on the sides.

i dont get all the confusion over the vans handle as is. but it is reminicent of other handles. seems alot like the one in a cessna 150.
definately put a note in the POH as to the orientation of the handle.
 
My setup has spring loaded stops that keep the handle from rotating into the off position without pressing them down. It also ensures that the handle points towards the tank and keeps the false pointer from ever pointing towards anything.
 
This is not an area to save a buck. I suggest going with a top quality Andair valve. It points, it detents, and you have to really want to go to the off position to get it there, (you have to pull up and then turn it to get to the off position).

Glad you took the time to point out this potential danger and I hope Van's will do the right thing and make a change.

Fuel valves certainly can, and have, killed too many poeple.

Randy C
 
Difference in levers

Hello everyone. Bill Abbott of Aerogizmos here. First of all I am glad that you made it down safe Cleve. Sounds like a perfect example of fly the airplane first and work on the problem second.

The Aerogizmos FUEL LEVER sold by Vans takes the mounting design of the original lever that comes with the valve and mimics it. The hole in my lever is shaped just like the letter D. Not only is it shaped correctly for this valve it has a friction and compression fit when tightened down on the lever. I had to have special tooling made in order to accomplish this task. When I designed the lever I tried several different mounting methods and found that there was only one answer.

If you are using an Aerogizmos Lever and the stock mounting screw comes loose the lever should still be on the shaft of the valve with a press fit. In the event that the lever is loose just push it down on the shaft and it should still turn the valve without issue. In addition it will only fit on the valve one way. Therefore when it slips down onto the shaft it will be in the position that the valve is in. No guesswork.


I have had one of my levers fail and luckily it was on the ground so the pilot did not have an emergency in the air. This was one of the early levers and it is the only reported failure to date.

If anyone out there has one of my levers and is concerned about the fit please contact me at [email protected] or 775-232-5886 and I will replace it. Thank you to all of my current and future patrons and once again to Doug Reeves for this fantastic website.
 
ww2planes said:
I have had one of my levers fail and luckily it was on the ground so the pilot did not have an emergency in the air. This was one of the early levers and it is the only reported failure to date.
Click to expand...

How did it fail? What did you change to improve the later levers?
 
A different opinion...

After well over 1000 hours of RV time divided up between 12 different RV's of all the different models, and all of them except one have the standard fuel valve (one has an Andair valve), I have concluded that what is much more important than "what valve you use"...is to "know your airplane".

There are literally multiple thousands of RV's fly very safely using the standard fuel valve. There is always a chance of a malfunction with any aircraft part whether it was design specific (like the andair valve) or not (like the standard valve).

If there is one thing that has been proven about RV's is that the fuel system as designed is pretty reliable. There are very few if any accidents that can be attributed to the fuel system design if it is installed per plans.

Bottom line... if it makes you feel better having a different valve, and you are not bothered by the price you are forced to pay... go for it. If on the other hand you don't feel like a substitute valve is worth that kind of cash, Do Not feel like you are compromising safety. The standard valve has a proven safety record and know one should have concerns about using it if the are inclined too.

Just another data point...
 
Failure

Hi Mark. We, myself and the owner, are not really sure why it failed. He beleived that he had it screwed down tightly and that it had some wear. I sent him a new lever and I have not heard back from him. I am assuming that all is well. The only way that a lever could wear is by not having it tight on the shaft and therefore, giving it room to move around on the shaft. If there is no movememnt then there cannot be any wear. Either way the later generation lever seems to be working well.
 
I think the problem reported by Cleve is with the Vans “FUEL VALVE LEVER II” item. This same product is also sold by Cleaveland Aircraft Tool as “RVFS1”. Van also sells another item “FUEL VALVE LEVER” and I think this one is the product Aerogizmos makes that has the “D” shaped hole and fits / functions like the original Van supplied lever. I don’t think there is much concern regarding the Aerogizmos product but rather the “FUEL VALVE LEVER II” or “RVFS1” product that does NOT have the “D” shaped valve stem hole.

The FUEL VALVE LEVER II has a round hole and uses an allen set screw that can be installed from either the pointer end of the lever or the opposite end. This allows it to be used on Vans old and new style valves. The instructions that come with the LEVER II are very detailed on how to install the lever making sure the set screw is installed on the lever end that meets with the flat side of the valve stem and to use red locktight when installing the set screw.

Cleve, did you verify the set screw was installed on the flat side of the lever with locktight? I’m concerned since I also have this lever installed and I’m very surprised a locktight’ed set screw would back out far enough from the valve stem flat that the lever would then spin on the stem. If so, then I think a second set screw behind the first should also be installed and the product installation instructions should be updated accordingly.
 
I have always been bothered by the orientation of the standard fuel valve. When you get the valve there is a nice little pointer on the handle. It clearly is meant to point at something. This same valve is used in other equipment applications and the arrow always points to the tank, or line in use.
I use the pointer on the handle, in my aircraft, to point to the tank in use.
There is a large decal that states that "THE POINTER POINTS TO TANK IN USE". I could never understand why any one would grind off a perfectly good pointer and add to the confusion by trying to make the handle a pointer.
Personal preference I guess but it is worry some that some RVs use opposite ends of the valve to indicate tank position as sooner or later this will cause a regretable confusion. I wonder who was the first guy to grind the point off???
 
Tom Martin said:
I have always been bothered by the orientation of the standard fuel valve. When you get the valve there is a nice little pointer on the handle. It clearly is meant to point at something. This same valve is used in other equipment applications and the arrow always points to the tank, or line in use.
I use the pointer on the handle, in my aircraft, to point to the tank in use.
There is a large decal that states that "THE POINTER POINTS TO TANK IN USE". I could never understand why any one would grind off a perfectly good pointer and add to the confusion by trying to make the handle a pointer.
Personal preference I guess but it is worry some that some RVs use opposite ends of the valve to indicate tank position as sooner or later this will cause a regretable confusion. I wonder who was the first guy to grind the point off???
Click to expand...

It would require you to cross your fuel lines to make it work the way the valve is designed. I find the big handle as a pointer to be very intuitive and obvious. By the way, I bought he Cleveland derrivative of the Fuel Lever II and chose not to install it for fear of exactly what happened here. I feel bad now as I sold it to someone else. I hope they read the posts.
I dont think it is a bad design, but I was not comfortable, even with locktite, that the set screw could not back out someday.
PS - I always carry a readily accessable Leatherman on my belt. If my lever failed, I could grab the shaft with the pliers and make something happen.
 
Tom Martin said:
I have always been bothered by the orientation of the standard fuel valve. When you get the valve there is a nice little pointer on the handle. It clearly is meant to point at something. This same valve is used in other equipment applications and the arrow always points to the tank, or line in use.
I use the pointer on the handle, in my aircraft, to point to the tank in use.
There is a large decal that states that "THE POINTER POINTS TO TANK IN USE". I could never understand why any one would grind off a perfectly good pointer and add to the confusion by trying to make the handle a pointer.
Personal preference I guess but it is worry some that some RVs use opposite ends of the valve to indicate tank position as sooner or later this will cause a regretable confusion. I wonder who was the first guy to grind the point off???
Click to expand...

JonJay said:
It would require you to cross your fuel lines to make it work the way the valve is designed. I find the big handle as a pointer to be very intuitive and obvious....
Click to expand...
I would have to go look to be sure but I used the valve in my kit and don't remember having to do any strange plumbing. To me it is more intuitive to have the pointer point to the tank and in fact I accidentally shut off the fuel in someone else's RV, in flight, because it worked opposite to mine. After this happened I tried to think of a way to make it obvious that the handle points to the tank to select it. Couldn't come up with anything very good.
 
In my application, RV4 and rockets, the left fuel line goes directly into the valve as does the right side without crossing. The valve is mounted in the centre of the aircraft just in front of the stick. I have used the same valve on numerous planes. The arrow on the standard van's valve handle points to the inlet line. Thus when it is pointed left the left line goes directly into the valve. No crossing of lines is required.
 
cleve_thompson said:
I replaced the original fuel valve lever with the pretty anodized fuel valve lever II from Van's but which can also be ordered from Cleaveland Tools. Instead of having a flat side to match the valve stem, it has a set screw to keep it from turning on the stem. I worried about what would happen if this screw loosened so I put Locktight on the screw.

Well, the unthinkable happened yesterday! When I was switching tanks before landing, the handle moved the valve a short distance and then started slipping. I worked with it and finally got it to more to a detente but I had no idea what the valve was turned to. I was really scared being that I was 10 miles from the nearest airport. I made it but I never want that to happen again!
I have since replace the pretty lever with the old one that I have ground off the nose of and will NEVER look back. I think the potential for a catastrophe using the lever called FUEL VALVE LEVER II in the Van's catalogue is too great! I have discussed this with builder's support at Van's but I don't know what disposition they will make about continuing to stock this level

This is the way the lever is listed in the Van's catalogue. Part number FUEL VALVE LEVER II
Replacement for stock handle on fuel valves supplied in kits. Pointer direction can be set to work with any vintage installation. Red Anodized finish.

There is another listed as Fuel Valve Lever I but was not available when I ordered. It has a flat side but will work only if the valve is plumbed a certain way.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the report, Cleve. Stuff happens no matter how hard we try to keep things safe. You did a great job keeping things in perspective in flight.

I can only add to what has been said to the extent that the Andair valve is a quality product. We use the 6 port version to provide for by-pass fuel to return to the supply tank. I have never heard a negative comment on the valve.

Beyond that, all I can say is I have fond memories of your home state of Georgia - learned to fly there a long ago at Bevo Howard's Hawthorne School of Aeronautics at Moultrie and the following year came back to Valdosta for another school. Those were exciting days for a young aviator.
 
Dave-Bevo Howard & Spence AFB at Moultrie?

I remember Bevo's airshows he would do at graduations of USAF pilots. The outside square loop bottoming out about 50' above the ramp always got to me!
That Jungmeister was wonderfully graceful in his masterful hands!

For the youngsters here on the list ,check out
http://bevhoward.com/Bevo.htm
to learn more about a real aviator,my flying hero, Bevo Howard!
 
Pretty red lever installation

Cleve,

I have the same setup but plumbed the tanks so the set screw locks into the flat on the shaft. It would be a problem retrofittting this knob and can understand why it would be necessary to set the screw on the opposite side to the flat.

To put my mind at rest did you have the set screw locking into the flat or was it on the plain shaft? I would be staggered to think the screw backed out so far as to allow rotation if it had been set on the flat.

As Gil said, file a flat on the reverse side or perhaps even easier, drill a land on the shaft through the setscrew hole. Remove the knob and enlarge the land. Take care not to remove too much material - remember there is a #6 screw threaded into the shaft behind it.

But... future maintenence would be an issue. Always a risk that the knob would be reinstalled pointing to the wrong tank.

Doug
 
The FUEL VALVE LEVER II which I think we are all talking about will accept a set screw from the pointer side or the back side. Regardless of the valve and original lever orientation, the FUEL VALVE LEVER II can be installed with the set screw on the valve stem flat.
 
Question here, what size is the set screw?

I have this fuel valve lever and would like to pick up three more set screws on the way to the airport.

My thinking is I'll remove the lever, file a flat spot opposite the original flat spot, reinstall the lever, install the second set screw through the point hole and back both up with a locking set screw, with permanent loctite. Shouldn't be any trouble at all and adds an additional set screw/flat spot with double locking set screws. IMO, this will solve any issues with me.
 
Fuel Lever II

Joe Condon and Doug,

I had the set screw of the Fuel Lever II tighten over the flat on the valve stem and "locked" with Loctite Red. Somehow, the screw loosened in spite of this. As has been said, the Lever II has a place for the set screw to be used on either side of the lever depending on how one plumbs the valve.

The Fuel Lever I has a "D" shaped tunnel that I don't think could slip and doesn't need a set screw. When I received the "II" I called Van's to send it back and get the "I" because I was concerned. At the time, they didn't have any "I's".

Bill Abbott, the manufacturer of the handles I believe, has written to me and has offered to send a "I" lever free of charge. I don't believe that lever would slip. I have now re-installed the original handle, grounded off the little pointer and am using the handle to point towards the tank in use. I have also painted it red and while it is not as pretty as Bill's lever, I think I will just leave it. I do commend Bill for his backing of his products.

BTW, Lever I, the one with the "D" shaped tunnel, will only work fuel lines cross and go into opposite sides of the Van's valve. This the way the plans had me do it on the RV9A I built.
 
Vern said:
I remember Bevo's airshows he would do at graduations of USAF pilots. The outside square loop bottoming out about 50' above the ramp always got to me!
That Jungmeister was wonderfully graceful in his masterful hands!

For the youngsters here on the list ,check out
http://bevhoward.com/Bevo.htm
to learn more about a real aviator,my flying hero, Bevo Howard!
Click to expand...

Yep, that's where it all started. Class 60-F. :)

Bevo Howard and Bob Hoover were great friends. Many years later I was a 727 flight engineer working a trip to LA. The only passenger in first class was Bob Hoover so the crew took turns going back to shake hands and say hello. He is a very nice, cheerful person and pleased that we visited with him. When I mentioned Bevo Howard, Spence AB and Georgia his eyes lit up and he launched into a long story about a screwed up NTSB, black widow spiders, and Bevo Howard's death in the Jungmeister. Mr. Hoover insisted it was black widow spiders which had taken up residence while the airplane sat on the ground in the Carolinas for about 6 weeks. There were unknown marks on Mr. Howards neck from the spiders, according to Bob Hoover, which the government completely ignored in the investigation.

I did see that graduation air show several times as he did it for each class. It was a royal treat and send off for young aviators. The instructors were all civilian and very special people, of course hired by Mr. Howard.
 
Good move

cleve_thompson said:
Joe Condon and Doug,

I had the set screw of the Fuel Lever II tighten over the flat on the valve stem and "locked" with Loctite Red. Somehow, the screw loosened in spite of this. As has been said, the Lever II has a place for the set screw to be used on either side of the lever depending on how one plumbs the valve.

The Fuel Lever I has a "D" shaped tunnel that I don't think could slip and doesn't need a set screw. When I received the "II" I called Van's to send it back and get the "I" because I was concerned. At the time, they didn't have any "I's".

Bill Abbott, the manufacturer of the handles I believe, has written to me and has offered to send a "I" lever free of charge. I don't believe that lever would slip. I have now re-installed the original handle, grounded off the little pointer and am using the handle to point towards the tank in use. I have also painted it red and while it is not as pretty as Bill's lever, I think I will just leave it. I do commend Bill for his backing of his products.

BTW, Lever I, the one with the "D" shaped tunnel, will only work fuel lines cross and go into opposite sides of the Van's valve. This the way the plans had me do it on the RV9A I built.
Click to expand...

Set screws in a back and forth application like Van's fuel valve will seldom successfully stay in place, especially on a small brass shaft,
The best way to lock a set screw is to use one on top of the other, tighten the first one then back it up with a second. If you must use this type of handle check the screw often and have a plan "B" ready. Better yet get the "D" type knob with a top screw.
 
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