Anyone have experience with EcoPrime? It is the old Steward Systems stuff now sold by http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/
Looks pretty good.
Looks pretty good.
Van's Air Force
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New primer war
- Thread starter docrick
- Start date
flytoboat
Well Known Member
Stewart Systems
Stewart Systems bought out AFS but they still use the AFS web address. There are a few threads about this paint and primer in the archives if you do a search. I haven't used it yet, but I am planning to make an order soon for my primer. I'm still looking for someone who has used the finish paint on their exterior. Any reports out there?
Stewart Systems bought out AFS but they still use the AFS web address. There are a few threads about this paint and primer in the archives if you do a search. I haven't used it yet, but I am planning to make an order soon for my primer. I'm still looking for someone who has used the finish paint on their exterior. Any reports out there?
fstringham7a
Well Known Member
RE: AFS Primer
By their recommendation, Paul and Tammy the original owners of AFS said, "Use one part Polyurethane Paint as the "primer". I did and it was easy to apply, very durable, easy clean up, and easy on the lungs. Prep the parts with acid etch, clean with AFS heavy duty cleaner/scotch bright, rinse ...rinse...rinse....let dry, and paint away. My only problem was not
having an adequate compressor to keep up with the hvlp. Also be a where that using this water bourn paints use a different process. Mist first coat. Then several coats increasing the paint flow with each successive coat.
Remember though...your mileage may very.
Frank @ SGU...RV7A...veteran and survivor of the early primer wars
By their recommendation, Paul and Tammy the original owners of AFS said, "Use one part Polyurethane Paint as the "primer". I did and it was easy to apply, very durable, easy clean up, and easy on the lungs. Prep the parts with acid etch, clean with AFS heavy duty cleaner/scotch bright, rinse ...rinse...rinse....let dry, and paint away. My only problem was not
having an adequate compressor to keep up with the hvlp. Also be a where that using this water bourn paints use a different process. Mist first coat. Then several coats increasing the paint flow with each successive coat.
Remember though...your mileage may very.
Frank @ SGU...RV7A...veteran and survivor of the early primer wars
Auburntsts
Well Known Member
I'v been using the AFS, now Stewart Systems, Primer/Sealer and have had good results. But it's not bullet proof, in that MEK will wipe it off and it's not as scratch resistant as say AKSO, but it holds up fine to normal handling.
Brantel
Well Known Member
The primer is not as tough as two part epoxy but it is allot tougher than one part self etching in either the rattle can or in bulk.
Easy cleanup, easy to spray, suppose to be safe and non-toxic...
It goes on weird. The coat will look a little like orange peel but as it dries, it will lay down super smooth. Does not have much of a tendacy to run and if it does, most of the time after it dries you can't easily find it.
It does take longer for it to dry. Max toughness comes in about 24 hrs at a decent temp.
MEK will cut it easy at first but the longer it dries, the harder it is for MEK to cut it. After a few days, you have to work at it to get MEK to rub it off.
Easy cleanup, easy to spray, suppose to be safe and non-toxic...
It goes on weird. The coat will look a little like orange peel but as it dries, it will lay down super smooth. Does not have much of a tendacy to run and if it does, most of the time after it dries you can't easily find it.
It does take longer for it to dry. Max toughness comes in about 24 hrs at a decent temp.
MEK will cut it easy at first but the longer it dries, the harder it is for MEK to cut it. After a few days, you have to work at it to get MEK to rub it off.
flytoboat
Well Known Member
Waterborne Primer
Thanks for the report Brian, What spray gun are you using and what size orifice does it have?
Thanks
Thanks for the report Brian, What spray gun are you using and what size orifice does it have?
Thanks
JonJay
Well Known Member
More than one way to prevent Corrosion.
I pulled the following from a maintenace article from a specific aircraft type;
Prevention can be accomplished with a variety of protective barriers such as: 1) The pure aluminum clad covering the alloy on all of the sheet aluminum based components of the aircraft. 2) A product such as Alodine that converts the metal's surface into a protective barrier. 3) Various forms of primers and paints that today can create an almost impervious coating. 4) Several anti-corrosion products designed to be fogged or sprayed into aircraft structures. 5) Simply keeping the metal clean and dry thus removing the electrolyte from the equation. Any or all of these methods can be used to combat the corrosion process.
No wonder there are so many debates about priming and products to do such.
Van's QB kits have minimal priming. In fact, the self etch product they use is listed by the manufacturer in their own data sheet as "offering little corrosion protection". So, if you have any QB components, the most critical joints are already covered up and have "minimal corrosion protection" from the primer, but of course, they are ALCLAD.
FWIW
I pulled the following from a maintenace article from a specific aircraft type;
Prevention can be accomplished with a variety of protective barriers such as: 1) The pure aluminum clad covering the alloy on all of the sheet aluminum based components of the aircraft. 2) A product such as Alodine that converts the metal's surface into a protective barrier. 3) Various forms of primers and paints that today can create an almost impervious coating. 4) Several anti-corrosion products designed to be fogged or sprayed into aircraft structures. 5) Simply keeping the metal clean and dry thus removing the electrolyte from the equation. Any or all of these methods can be used to combat the corrosion process.
No wonder there are so many debates about priming and products to do such.
Van's QB kits have minimal priming. In fact, the self etch product they use is listed by the manufacturer in their own data sheet as "offering little corrosion protection". So, if you have any QB components, the most critical joints are already covered up and have "minimal corrosion protection" from the primer, but of course, they are ALCLAD.
FWIW
Works for me
I have used the AFS paint for a little over 4 years now. As has been said before, the primer is easy to use, easy to clean-up, and it is supposedly better for the environment. A very important attribute of the AFS primer is that it is a primer sealer, so it does not have to be topcoated, unlike most rattle can paint. Maybe not as good as epoxy primer, but hard to beat the convenience of the AFS primer.
What I like most about the primer is that you can just pour the extra primer back into the bottle when you are done. So, it's not a big deal if you just want to prime a few parts, since you do not have to be careful about wasting anything if you mix too much (nothing to mix).
After three years, I had to clean-up my wings after rats got inside them (for the second time). I found that MEK will still remove the primer after three years. You do have to rub a little, but it is still pretty easy to remove. Lacquer thinner can be used to clean the painted parts without too much problem, but with enough rubbing and enough lacquer thinner, it will eventually remove the AFS primer.
Regarding the top coat. This is a polyurethane that is water-borne but not water-based. It is hazardous, but I don't know if it is any better or worse than any other polyurethane paint.
I do know that once the top coat paint is cured, it is virtually imipossible to remove. MEK will not touch it, and it is extremely hard to sand off. I assume it is similar to other polyurethanes. My horizontal stabilizor has been painted and hung up on the factory wall for over two years, and it still looks good (at least, to me). The trim tab has been tossed around the shop for about three years, and it does not show any signs of abuse. The top coat does take some practice to get right, but it really looks good once you master the technique.
Tracy.
I have used the AFS paint for a little over 4 years now. As has been said before, the primer is easy to use, easy to clean-up, and it is supposedly better for the environment. A very important attribute of the AFS primer is that it is a primer sealer, so it does not have to be topcoated, unlike most rattle can paint. Maybe not as good as epoxy primer, but hard to beat the convenience of the AFS primer.
What I like most about the primer is that you can just pour the extra primer back into the bottle when you are done. So, it's not a big deal if you just want to prime a few parts, since you do not have to be careful about wasting anything if you mix too much (nothing to mix).
After three years, I had to clean-up my wings after rats got inside them (for the second time). I found that MEK will still remove the primer after three years. You do have to rub a little, but it is still pretty easy to remove. Lacquer thinner can be used to clean the painted parts without too much problem, but with enough rubbing and enough lacquer thinner, it will eventually remove the AFS primer.
Regarding the top coat. This is a polyurethane that is water-borne but not water-based. It is hazardous, but I don't know if it is any better or worse than any other polyurethane paint.
I do know that once the top coat paint is cured, it is virtually imipossible to remove. MEK will not touch it, and it is extremely hard to sand off. I assume it is similar to other polyurethanes. My horizontal stabilizor has been painted and hung up on the factory wall for over two years, and it still looks good (at least, to me). The trim tab has been tossed around the shop for about three years, and it does not show any signs of abuse. The top coat does take some practice to get right, but it really looks good once you master the technique.
Tracy.
Frank Smidler
Well Known Member
Painting over Veriprime?
Can the AFS primer be painted over self etching veriprime or does it all have to be stipped? I would love to use this system on my plane in the next couple of months but it has veriprime that is up to 12 years old. I was going to call AFS on this but since this thread started I thought someone here may have experience with this.
Can the AFS primer be painted over self etching veriprime or does it all have to be stipped? I would love to use this system on my plane in the next couple of months but it has veriprime that is up to 12 years old. I was going to call AFS on this but since this thread started I thought someone here may have experience with this.
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
Getting off subject, but I'm always happy to see that someone else has an RV6 that's 12 years old, and not flown...
I don't feel so bad, now
L.Adamson -- RV6A (begun in the tail end of '95)
Brantel
Well Known Member
I use the el-cheapo suedo HVLP gravity feed gun from Harbor Freight. Works fine with ths primer.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43430
OK I now have experience with this stuff
I primed all the parts for the HS and VS over the weekend. This primer goes on pretty easy. I gave a light 1st coat as instructed, waited 5 minutes and sprayed again for a total of 3 coats. In 24 hours this stuff looks great. I can't scratch it off with a fingernail.
I've heard MEK will rub it off but I couldn't care less. I don't plan on dumping MEK in the innards of my aircraft.
Side note is I can't believe how time consuming washing everything in soapy water and rinsing in clean water is. I only did this for about 5 minutes and then I said enough! Cleaned everything with MEK followed by an etching with EkoEtch and then let it dry and blasted it with the primer.
The clean up with water couldn't have been simpler.
I primed all the parts for the HS and VS over the weekend. This primer goes on pretty easy. I gave a light 1st coat as instructed, waited 5 minutes and sprayed again for a total of 3 coats. In 24 hours this stuff looks great. I can't scratch it off with a fingernail.
I've heard MEK will rub it off but I couldn't care less. I don't plan on dumping MEK in the innards of my aircraft.
Side note is I can't believe how time consuming washing everything in soapy water and rinsing in clean water is. I only did this for about 5 minutes and then I said enough! Cleaned everything with MEK followed by an etching with EkoEtch and then let it dry and blasted it with the primer.
The clean up with water couldn't have been simpler.
