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Bird Strike Countermeasure

Scott Chastain

Scott Chastain

Active Member
Again, He said to me, "Prophecy to these bones, and say to them, 'O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord! Thus says the Lord God to these bones: "Surely I will cause breath to enter into you, and you shall live. I will put sinews on you and bring flesh upon you, cover you with skin and put breath in you; and you shall live. Then you shall know that I am the Lord."'"

Ezekiel 37:5-6
 
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I've seen them split half and half, like Danny Kings "Beautiful Doll" and on WWII birds, but never 1/3 2/3 as you describe. Very interesting Would 1/2 & 1/2 work the same? or only 1/3 2/3?:confused:
 
RVAddict said:
I've seen them split half and half, like Danny Kings "Beautiful Doll" and on WWII birds, but never 1/3 2/3 as you describe. Very interesting Would 1/2 & 1/2 work the same? or only 1/3 2/3?:confused:
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Perhaps an optimum ratio would exist for a given RPM or RPM range.:rolleyes:
 
watch out scott

youll have the tree huggers whining "your scarring the birds and now they have changed their migratory patterns. were gonna have to ask you to not fly over wetlands.." :rolleyes:
or some garbage like that.:rolleyes: it really wouldnt surprise me. i think i'll do it.:D that paint looks really slick.
did anybody see future weapons?......and their talk of "filling the skys" with peerless planes.(unmaned)
 
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asav8tor said:
Perhaps an optimum ratio would exist for a given RPM or RPM range.:rolleyes:
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I'm thinking that the cruising prop RPM on the Messerschmidt is around 1000-1200 RPMs, or about one-half engine RPMs. All depends on keeping the prop tips sub-sonic. Not sure how you would have to paint the spinner on higher RPM props to achieve the strobe effect visible to birds. It's an interesting theory I wish I could use on the T-28.
 
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I don't want to steal this thread but want to point out some things about the first picture.

Did anyone else notice the modified hangar wall for the prop? Very interesting.

The plane in the photo is (probably) not a true Messerschmidt BF-109. Since the exhaust is mounted high on the cowling, it has a Rolls Royce Merlin engine (the BF-109 had an inverted V-12 and the exhaust was low on the cowl) and is most likely a post-war CASA, Spanish built under license.

Karl
 
Battle of Britain movie

RV8N said:
.......
The plane in the photo is (probably) not a true Messerschmidt BF-109. Since the exhaust is mounted high on the cowling, it has a Rolls Royce Merlin engine (the BF-109 had an inverted V-12 and the exhaust was low on the cowl) and is most likely a post-war CASA, Spanish built under license.

Karl
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...and the plane probably was a star in the "Battle of Britain" 1969 movie....

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064072/

battleofbritain01h.jpg


gil A - one of my favorite flying movies
 
What about strobes?

Is there any evidence that strobes themselves deter birds? Do the tip-mounted strobes do any good? What about the wig-wag lights?
 
This is really interesting - is there any research documentation / details around the web on this.

Seems too 'simple' to not be widely know about. I'm keen - but would like to see some supporting evidence.

Carl
 
"Ruined the Thread..."

Guys, I woke up this morning to look at the forum, and had a couple of PM's from people who said that they really were interested in the topic of this thread, but were totally turned off by the political rants....and remember that what seems to be a perfectly reasonable political position to one person is a rant to another.....funny or not! (I went to a comedy club with friends last night, and the headliner's routine was 80% profanity - I'm not a prude by any means, and I stayed for the show, but if it had been on TV, I'd have changed the channel!). I got one comment that these posts had "Ruined the thread, and makes me not want to even get on the forums...)

We are entering a highly charged political season, and there are lots of places to discuss politics on the web. Doug can contradict me if I'm wrong (and I frequently am...), but that is not the point of these forums. As a moderator, I can make things go away, but I almost never use that option, as I think it creates more bad blood. I know I've made posts I thought were funny at the time, but later realized had no place within the rules, and I know that no one wants to go out of their way to offend....but lets remember the forum rules, and try not to chase people out of the tent.
 
OK, OK, Sorry.....

GUILTY- of a non RV opinion, plus, everyone tells me I'm wrong anyway. To top that off, I've also been guilty of walking out of a George Carlin show in my younger days. Probably no hope for me.
 
captainron said:
Is there any evidence that strobes themselves deter birds? Do the tip-mounted strobes do any good? What about the wig-wag lights?
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Ron,

At Goose Creek (28A) we have Geese (go figure), buzzards (darn, they are BIG), hawks and other birds.

My strobes don't seem to impact them. At least I hope they never impact them. :D

I'm not sure the wig-wag lights will do much as you pretty much have to be lookingd down the hole in the wings to see them flash. At least on the Duckworth lights you do.

Since my spinner and cowling is currently primmer gray, I might just take it home and paint 2/3 of it black and see what happens.
 
Bob Odegard's red Super Corsair has one of the four blades painted white. It is amazing to see how slow that engine turns. I have often wondered why the prop is painted that way. Maybe someone here knows.
 
I had always heard that the airlines paint swirls on the center hub of jet engines for the same reason - so maybe swirling the spinner would be just as effective?

33522386.jpg
 
AlexPeterson said:
Bob Odegard's red Super Corsair has one of the four blades painted white. It is amazing to see how slow that engine turns. I have often wondered why the prop is painted that way. Maybe someone here knows.
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I seem to recall hearing that it was done to imitate a prior Super Corsair, from the late 40's or so.

And, that the reason the original has one blade white, was due to needing a blade right now, no time to paint it.

Hopefully this is correct---------

Here it is from Reno this year.



And here is a link to a prior thread showing the plane scroll down to post 14.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=20032&highlight=beautiful+hangar&page=2
 
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I think I'll try it! Bird strikes are not rare around here; we had one on a Tomahawk I used to rent just last year. Since I used vinyl for all my 2nd and 3rd colors, it will be easy AND I can change it back if it doesn't appear to work. Next time I have some decent weather, 2/3rd warm red, 1/3rd white. I know I'll probably look weird to anyone who hasn't read this thread...

Bob Kelly
 
Mel said:
Some of the old F4Us painted one prop blade white. You could try that.
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The blades are polished, so that's probably out. BTW, as wide as those blades are, you should see the sheets of ice come off of them when you wander into some precip at freezing temps. It's a good thing that the front glass is pretty thick!:eek:
 
Dont know what its worth . We use spinning wing decoys to attract ducks. A12v motor with output shafts on each end. then attack 2 corrugated polystyrene{wings] painted black on one side white on other.The effect looks like a wing of a duck from a distance and really draws ducks. We put these in our landing holes and the ducks land by it.R P M is about 700 .
 
Stroboscopic spinner

I think the 1/3, 2/3 spinner would work better than the 1/2, 1/2. The more area of white you add, the less "startling" it becomes. To go to extremes, go 1/8 red, 7/8 white. It would look simply pinkish. I wonder if the effect would be diminished going the other way as well, say 1/4 white, 3/4 red. If I am right, on the P-51, Big Beautiful Doll, the ratio is 3:1. That may work better for slower rotational speeds.

Dave
 
First Impression

My first impression when seeing the paint scheme was a bit simpler. If you rotated the prop so the white was down the camo would not be compromised. I can't imagine there was much science involved.:eek:
 
If anyone has a video of one of these spinners coming down the line, I would sure like to see it. This seems like a neat idea, and if nothing else, it's something for people to ask about when they see your plane!
 
TaildraggersInc said:
If anyone has a video of one of these spinners coming down the line, I would sure like to see it. This seems like a neat idea, and if nothing else, it's something for people to ask about when they see your plane!
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See this URL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjLwdxBij-g

When Doug did the video camera-on-the-wheelpant thing, he had Danny King do some trail formation with him. There are some good CLOSE-ups of Danny's plane in that video. His spinner is half black, half white, the author of this thread said the 1/3, 2/3 combo flashes even more.

VERY COOL!!!
 
Camara effect

Great video and the effect may be enough to scare birds.
I am not sure a video does justice to the effect due to the shutter speed and all.
 
Interesting....

The flashing spinner is more visible then the strobes, which you have to watch closely to see if they are on.

I guess I will paint mine again, even though I have not hit a bird yet.:eek:

Kent
 
I liked the idea of this paint scheme, so I recently painted my spinner like this. I had some problems getting the clear coat smooth and I am not sure what I did wrong. The texture is kind of grainy. Should I sand it and polish it or should I recoat it?

Also it occured to me that if I was a fighter pilot, I would not want to increase the visibility of my aircraft, I would probably want it more stealthy. Can anybody explain why a fighter would want a strobe on his nose?
 
Not sure it does any good?

The Warbird spinner is probably as much to scare the enemy. Jet engines have spinners with spirals on them. Some think turning the radar on helps. JFK has canons and trained birds of prey. Not sure it helps? Sometimes birds are dumb and get deer in the headlight syndrome or just fly into the plane when startled.

Knowledge is power. Knowing about bird migration can help but fact is, it's russian roulette. I have had one or two bird strikes (that I know about) in a jet. I've come close in GA planes a few times that I noticed. I know about a few GA pilots that had bird strikes that where close to me. One guy had eye damage when the bird went through the piper cherokee's windscreen.

Wear EYE protection!

PS Birds in general do a 180 and DIVE when startled. Birds of prey may even try to fly with you and give you an evil eye. An eagle gave me the EYE once, like what the heck are you doing here as I flew by. He was not afraid. Pretty awesome sight.
 
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I once shared a thermal in a glider with an eagle. He dove at the canopy with talons extended several times, and when I didn't leave, he eventually left.
 
Data Please

A few years ago, I dismissed the idea of painting the spinner on my -6A in a 1/3-2/3 ratio to achieve the strobe effect I've often viewed in newsreel footage of ME-109's and FW-190's when it was pointed out to me that those engines turn much slower than our Lycomings and at the time I simply left it at that. However after viewing the dramatic Danny King video, I'm convinced the strobe effect is not only possible but highly achievable at least when the spinner is painted in a 50%-50% ratio.

It does makes me wonder if a computer simulation can be cobbed together to experiment with various ratios to determine the optimum strobe effect produced when RPM's are set for a target or average rate coupled with our Lycoming engines. For instance, what would a 3/8-5/8 black and white ratio look like at 2200 RPM? Still, I'm not sure the "refresh rate" on our color monitors is even capable of producing useful visual information. In any event and to avoid reinventing the wheel, I have to believe someone out there has already done the research and knows what an optimum ratio is and it is simply a matter of an interested party ferreting out the relevant information.

Since the last posting to this thread was made, has any additional and useful information on the subject been uncovered by anyone?
 
Rick6a said:
Since the last posting to this thread was made, has any additional and useful information on the subject been uncovered by anyone?
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Ha-ha.

It did produce one great video.

Most birds assume an airplane is a predator and will dive to escape so I am spring loaded to pull up. Except geese. They do not break formation, at least I have not seen them do it. There are plenty of them here along the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers all year round. Brandt's and Canada geese, and sometimes huge white swans and brown pelicans and gazillions of ducks. I don't think the eagles bother big birds much but rather go after dead fish, unlike the osprey which only eats live fish. The eagle will eat anything and is a trash collector vrs the osprey which is more of a purist. The osprey is a ferocious fighter in defending a nest and will drive off the much larger eagle. It should have been the national bird rather than the trash collecting eagle. :)

Neither will dive away from an RV IMHO and probably find a colored spinner an amusement.
 
David-aviator said:
Neither will dive away from an RV IMHO and probably find a colored spinner an amusement.....
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I tend to doubt the "Abbeville Boys" painted aircraft spinners in a purposeful effort to ward off bird strikes. A feared and potent threat, I'm inclined to believe the visual display by the Abbeville Boys was primarily meant to dazzle or beguile their bomber prey during frontal attacks for mere milliseconds.....just enough distraction to squeeze off that shot and avoid being shot. Known for brash aerial derring do, rolling inverted during a pass makes it seem obvious they didn't paint the bellies of the airplanes because they didn't want to be seen. :) The effect must have had some psycological impact given that Tuskeegee airmen adapted a variation of the spinner strobe effect by painting a spiral pattern on the spinner to enhance their chances against a deadly foe. I do agree that as a countermeasure against bird strikes, such a device may be ineffective and your average bird may as you say....find a colored spinner an amusement but then...so do I. ;)

 
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Any idea who owns the video with the prop strobe...it is showing private....if the owner can share the video...that will be great..thanks in advance.
 
Our -9 has that...

...spinner with about 1/3 white and 2/3 red. we see a lot of birds in texas, some at cruising altitudes even, and haven't hit any yet (only about 40 RV hours here tho, to date). since the plane only flies when i am IN it, no firsthand knowledge of how it looks in the air; but it looks cool the rest of the time so we are keeping it! don o.
 
I painted my 8's spinner 2/3 red and 1/3 white. A couple of folks have mentioned that there seems to be "something" going on there.

I suspect that our eyes sort of integrate the blinking out to a pinkish color.

Good at starting coversations though. :D
 
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