Van's Air Force
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What is the normal time you get for testing
- Thread starter nmontei
- Start date
pierre smith
Well Known Member
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That sounds close, Nick. If you are using a certified engine and propeller, you might get 25 hours instead of 40. However, since most guys are using non-certified engines they usually get 40.
The radius can sometimes be negotiated but some DAR's only give a 25 mile radius. They generally try to keep you from overflying densely populated areas during phase 1.
Regards,
That sounds close, Nick. If you are using a certified engine and propeller, you might get 25 hours instead of 40. However, since most guys are using non-certified engines they usually get 40.
The radius can sometimes be negotiated but some DAR's only give a 25 mile radius. They generally try to keep you from overflying densely populated areas during phase 1.
Regards,
f1rocket
Well Known Member
40 hours for a non-certified engine or a non-certified prop/engine combination. 25 hours if they are certified.
I received 40 hours in my Rocket because the engine was an "experimental" engine built by Bart at Aerosport Power. I only got 25 in my RV-6 because they thought the engine was a certified Lycoming, although it came from Bart as well.
As an aside, you can really use the 40 hours regardless. If you are carefull and fully test everything, you'll use up all of 40 hours doing it right. I came up with some flight test cards back in 1999 that are posted all over the Internet. If you do a search, you'll find them. They provide a starting point for stepping you through the flight test process one flight at a time.
I received 40 hours in my Rocket because the engine was an "experimental" engine built by Bart at Aerosport Power. I only got 25 in my RV-6 because they thought the engine was a certified Lycoming, although it came from Bart as well.
As an aside, you can really use the 40 hours regardless. If you are carefull and fully test everything, you'll use up all of 40 hours doing it right. I came up with some flight test cards back in 1999 that are posted all over the Internet. If you do a search, you'll find them. They provide a starting point for stepping you through the flight test process one flight at a time.
Sam Buchanan
been here awhile
Negotiate your test area
The test area is often negotiated. While the 50 mile circle is the "norm", in our area the DAR will often change the area to a polygon that includes many airports and excludes flights into the jurisdiction of an adjacent FSDO. DARs are recognizing that high performance experimental aircraft can cover a lot of ground in a short period of time. Obviously, a builder who is based in an area of low population density will have more leverage when discussing the test area with his DAR, but don't hesitate to ask about an extended or irregular-shaped area. This negotiation needs to be conducted prior to the inspection so the DAR can prepare paperwork to accommodate the test area.
The test area is often negotiated. While the 50 mile circle is the "norm", in our area the DAR will often change the area to a polygon that includes many airports and excludes flights into the jurisdiction of an adjacent FSDO. DARs are recognizing that high performance experimental aircraft can cover a lot of ground in a short period of time. Obviously, a builder who is based in an area of low population density will have more leverage when discussing the test area with his DAR, but don't hesitate to ask about an extended or irregular-shaped area. This negotiation needs to be conducted prior to the inspection so the DAR can prepare paperwork to accommodate the test area.
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What Sam says....I established with my DAR prior to his visit my requested test area which was much larger than the 50 mile radius, and explained that this was due to the high cruise speed of my -9A and the close proximity of NY and Philly Class B airspaces. Ended up with him approving a polygon about 150 miles by 75 miles, with cut outs for the class B's. He also wanted a list of the airports that I planned to 'visit' during this period as well to further endorse the area. As you can imagine, this worked really well, but even so, in the end i felt like a fly inside a glass jar, bumping up against the edges/sides. Good test for the flight planning and interaction between my GPS and Autopilot though. Cool to see the Ap making small corrections so accurately.
Allan
and the close proximity of NY and Philly Class B airspaces. Ended up with him approving a polygon about 150 miles by 75 miles, with cut outs for the class B's. He also wanted a list of the airports that I planned to 'visit' during this period as well to further endorse the area. As you can imagine, this worked really well, but even so, in the end i felt like a fly inside a glass jar, bumping up against the edges/sides. Good test for the flight planning and interaction between my GPS and Autopilot though. Cool to see the Ap making small corrections so accurately.Allan
I had an FAA employee perform the inspection on my -8. I think it was one of the last experimentals done by the FAA in my area. They cut back due to being short handed. He is the father of a co-worker of mine, saved me several hundred dollars.
My Lycoming is out of a 1966 Mooney but was on another experimental before I got it. The prior owner took the name plate off the engine. I made a stainless name plate and had it engraved with "Experimental Lycoming". The inspector read the plate and said "I guess you get 25 hours." I said "But..." and his look told me to shut up. So I got 25 hours.
Something finally worked in my favor.
Karl
My Lycoming is out of a 1966 Mooney but was on another experimental before I got it. The prior owner took the name plate off the engine. I made a stainless name plate and had it engraved with "Experimental Lycoming". The inspector read the plate and said "I guess you get 25 hours." I said "But..." and his look told me to shut up. So I got 25 hours.
Something finally worked in my favor.
Karl
Certificated engine/prop combination will normally get 25 hrs. This is up to the inspector. If there is something that makes him/her uncomfortable, he/she can add whatever time makes him/her comfortable. If the engine has after market "stuff" such as electronic ignition or anything not listed on the type certificate, than the engine becomes experimental and drops into the 40 hr. flight test.
The test area is flexible depending on the speed of the aircraft and the surrounding area. I typically give a 75 NM radius for RVs. This area can be a radius or defined by landmarks. Also, it does NOT have to be centered on your home airport.
And YEP, sometimes you need to know when to shut up!
The test area is flexible depending on the speed of the aircraft and the surrounding area. I typically give a 75 NM radius for RVs. This area can be a radius or defined by landmarks. Also, it does NOT have to be centered on your home airport.
And YEP, sometimes you need to know when to shut up!
I got a large polygon test area
My home airport is under the STL Class B so I suggested an odd shaped polygon with airports at the corner points. My DAR made some adjustments but I basically got what I asked for with 50-60 nm sides.
What Sam says....I established with my DAR prior to his visit my requested test area which was much larger than the 50 mile radius, and explained that this was due to the high cruise speed of my -9A
Allan
My home airport is under the STL Class B so I suggested an odd shaped polygon with airports at the corner points. My DAR made some adjustments but I basically got what I asked for with 50-60 nm sides.
jmartinez443
Well Known Member
Given how conservative the FAA can be, I'm pretty certain that I know the answer is gonna be no, but what the heck asking is free.
Given the proliferation of experimental lyclones, is there any chance that experimental engines built by the bigger players (superior for instance) will get the 25 hour test period any time soon?
Given the proliferation of experimental lyclones, is there any chance that experimental engines built by the bigger players (superior for instance) will get the 25 hour test period any time soon?
kevinh
Well Known Member
The inspectors the FAA sent out to check over my plane gave me 25 hr, even though I had one electronic ignition on an Aerosport engine. I think I was just lucky.
Also they were very easy to work with on the test area - I drew a line around a good chunk of northern California (less the populated areas) and they said fine.
Also they were very easy to work with on the test area - I drew a line around a good chunk of northern California (less the populated areas) and they said fine.
mark manda
Well Known Member
Lycon new experimental engine, WhirlWind prop.-- 25hrs. 60nm. radius. rv7a
Lycon reblt experimental engine, reblt Hartzel prop.-- 20hr. 60nm. radius. Harmon Rocket. (112hrs. still flt testing stuff)
FAA Inspectors NOT DAR. like kevin had.
Inspector made a statement that they think so highly of Lycon's work... and they have been there and have seen so many...
Not easy to get the FAA out anymore.
Lycon reblt experimental engine, reblt Hartzel prop.-- 20hr. 60nm. radius. Harmon Rocket. (112hrs. still flt testing stuff)
FAA Inspectors NOT DAR. like kevin had.
Inspector made a statement that they think so highly of Lycon's work... and they have been there and have seen so many...
Not easy to get the FAA out anymore.
I think a lot also has to do with what prop. I had a Sensenich FP which is non-certified. That in combination with a Aerosport IO-360-B2B (O-360-A1A with Bendix fuel injection) I got the 40 hours.
I do think my DAR (from the EAA experimental program) would not make any exceptions to the rule. The FAA has probably more latitude to make rule exceptions.
25 Hours, 250NM radius
When I got my plane inspected, the DAR was going to give me the 40 hour period because my engine was imported from England and had an extra data plate attached to the top of the crankcase.
Upon further inspection, we found the original Lycoming data plate in the normal place. Two minutes with a wrench and my engine was "certified" again (always was).
I negotiated my flight radius with the DAR _before_ he arrived at my location.
Good man, thorough. I enjoyed the experience (nerve wracking as it was).
Hours are almost always either 25 or 40. Radius is entirely up to the DAR. I have heard stories of having to fly your entire test period in a steep turn.
The other end of the spectrum is what I received. It was _very_ nice to be able to fly most of my phase 1 hours off on cross-country trips.
Another fellow builder got 150 NM radius as well, from an FAA inspector.
YMMV,
When I got my plane inspected, the DAR was going to give me the 40 hour period because my engine was imported from England and had an extra data plate attached to the top of the crankcase.
Upon further inspection, we found the original Lycoming data plate in the normal place. Two minutes with a wrench and my engine was "certified" again (always was).
I negotiated my flight radius with the DAR _before_ he arrived at my location.
Good man, thorough. I enjoyed the experience (nerve wracking as it was).
Hours are almost always either 25 or 40. Radius is entirely up to the DAR. I have heard stories of having to fly your entire test period in a steep turn.
The other end of the spectrum is what I received. It was _very_ nice to be able to fly most of my phase 1 hours off on cross-country trips.
Another fellow builder got 150 NM radius as well, from an FAA inspector.
YMMV,
kevinh
Well Known Member
This probably is different FSDO by FSDO.
The Oakland FSDO guys said as long as the builder is organized and knows the rules, they love inspecting homebuilts.
My local EAA chapter had an inspector from the San Jose FSDO give a presentation and they said they also like doing inspections.
Don't know if this is the right thread for this response, but...I think it is also wise to spend about 5 - 10 hours in the vicinity of your home airport before going off on cross-countries for your Phase 1 time. If anything doesn't seem right, then you know you can get back to your hangar and not have any issues of repairs/adjustments miles away from your base.
Allan
Allan
