What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

A-Model issue - Question

hevansrv7a

hevansrv7a

Well Known Member
Disclosure - I have the -A model but I admit the risk involved.
Question - have any or many of the accidents with the A model on grass happened on take-off or is it mostly landing and taxiing? I ask because I noticed yesterday on grass that with 10 degrees of flaps and full aft stick until the nose got light that it did not drag much at all on takeoff, but the drag was noticeable and, of course, worrisome on roll-out and taxiing.

Any experts out there? Thanks.
 
Keep it off

My home airstrip here was grass for the first 2 yrs of my RV7a's life and I didn't notice any real difference in the takeoff's or landings with respect to the nosewheel. The, and i hesistate to call it a 'trick', but the trick is to keep that nosewheel off the ground as much as possible. I moved over to my RV7a after flying a Grumman AA1A for about 8 yrs - and have been drilled to treat that nosewheel as if it's made of balsa wood - the only purpose for it is to keep the prop off the ground during taxi. Especially on grass, treat all takeoffs as soft field - as soon as the elevators have authority, get the nose in the air and continue rolling on the mains. When landing, plant the mains down and roll on them with the back pressure increasing on the stick till its full in your lap and the elevator stops flying - the nosewheel will then come down on its own. In general, I'm not averse to grass strips - like I said, mine was grass for many years and I just learned the techniques, but - i've also concluded that i will not fly in to any grass strip until i've had a chance to evaluate it first with someone who already has been in there.
 
N520TX said:
My home airstrip here was grass for the first 2 yrs of my RV7a's life and I didn't notice any real difference in the takeoff's or landings with respect to the nosewheel. The, and i hesistate to call it a 'trick', but the trick is to keep that nosewheel off the ground as much as possible. I moved over to my RV7a after flying a Grumman AA1A for about 8 yrs - and have been drilled to treat that nosewheel as if it's made of balsa wood - the only purpose for it is to keep the prop off the ground during taxi. Especially on grass, treat all takeoffs as soft field - as soon as the elevators have authority, get the nose in the air and continue rolling on the mains. When landing, plant the mains down and roll on them with the back pressure increasing on the stick till its full in your lap and the elevator stops flying - the nosewheel will then come down on its own. In general, I'm not averse to grass strips - like I said, mine was grass for many years and I just learned the techniques, but - i've also concluded that i will not fly in to any grass strip until i've had a chance to evaluate it first with someone who already has been in there.
Click to expand...

Darn fine advice. I use the same technique always (even on pavement). Some pavement has potholes (Boundary Bay airport near Vancouver hadn't had an upgrade since WWII).

More importantly, it's the habit you get into that will make soft field landings easy-- just land and take off as if all fields are soft. Don't forget to check forward on the controls and accelerate in ground effect before climbing out.

Finally, if you can land on the mains and roll to the end of the runway before the nose comes down, it looks good to other pilots.
 
Missing the point?

I value the advice of you more experienced RV pilots, but I already know I should keep the weight off it, etc. I am just interested in whether the failures are more specific to landings than takeoffs because of the geometry of thrust, etc.
 
landings

I am fairly sure that if you review the RV accidents that you will find that those related to nosewheel failure most always occur on landing. If you haven't looked through Dan Checkoways RV accident database, you should check it out. Here's the link: http://www.rvproject.com/

You can find the link near the bottom of his homepage. take care

Link doesn't seem to be working today, maybe Dan is performing maintenance?
 
Last edited:
Follow up

OK, so if it is much more likely on landing, then would keeping up a little power, keeping the stick full aft and wasting brake pads be a worthwhile safety technique? Would it even work? The long tail on the C-150 made it easy to unload the nose wheel but I have not seen much of that in the RV-7A. But, without an oleo on the nose, would I be able to tell if it was?
 
Yes

Any backpressure will unload the nosewheel even tho' you can't see it rise like a C-150. Mine only has 250 or so pounds on it empty. With so much elevator authority, the A's can unload the nose a lot with full elevator.

Regards,
 
hevansrv7a said:
Disclosure - I have the -A model but I admit the risk involved.
Question - have any or many of the accidents with the A model on grass happened on take-off or is it mostly landing and taxiing? I ask because I noticed yesterday on grass that with 10 degrees of flaps and full aft stick until the nose got light that it did not drag much at all on takeoff, but the drag was noticeable and, of course, worrisome on roll-out and taxiing.

Any experts out there? Thanks.
Click to expand...

"Any experts out there?"

Alive or dead? There are plenty of both. :)

"I have the -A model but I admit the risk involved...."

It is assumed you mean the risk of flipping if the nose wheel becomes an anchor. I've never heard of it happening on take off, except one may have dropped into a ditch and that probably would have flipped a tail dragger also.

Know thy surface and keep the stick aft....there isn't much else to say about it. (stop here for the short answer)

There's a lot to say about the advantages and disadvantages of -A vrs -nothing. For daily ops out of a very short sod runway, the -A probably has the edge. Full aft stick results in less runway used than that needed to get the tail up with a TDer. My -A will come off the ground at full aft stick. I don't think a TD will do that. In either event, it is not good technique - relaxing back pressure before lift off is better.

Landing is dicey if the surface is wet and/or soft for either configeration. Wet grass can be as slippery as ice. My nose wheel pant has acted as a ski more than once as the wheel sunk in up to the bottom of the fairing. Full aft stick and bit of power will keep it light enough to manuever and the tail aft of the airplane and upright. (An engine out landing is another matter. Below 50 knots, you're along for the ride, the nose wheel will do what it will do depending on the surface. The TD would be better)

Landing the TD very short in a cross wind is a major challenge, slightly less so with -A. TD guys like to wheel land in such conditions and that always means a slightly higher approach speed and the need for more runway to get stopped. A 90 degree cross wind is a problem for either configeration as it could be a tail wind...the wind is never consistent on such days.

A definition of an expert is the pilot who can land the TD in such conditions, the -A pilot a little less of an expert - but perhaps a bit wiser. A friend flying a -4 will not fly into my runway due to trees and runway length. He too is a wise pilot. :)
 
Finally did it

Crop duster (and RV 4pilot) friend of mine has a 1600ft grass strip with BIG trees at each end.

I finally landed there yesterday...I came in a little hot (just under 80kts) and used an alarming amount of the runway but it worked out OK.

Take of was how I remembered it in my little old Zodiac...You sit there looking at trees saying "How on earth am I going to miss those?...Oh well"...Drop the hammer, full aft stick and the mains are going light in 200ft and I was off in about 400...Accelerate in ground effect...and it was like no big deal.

My buddy Jim told me i needed to be at 70kts and at tree top height (he's a crop sprayer remember)...But next time I bet I won't use half the strip on landing.

Frank 7a, 190hp CS
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top